I think there are many support groups and areas which can help people who are going through this stuff, DIDs, Lone Fathers, parents without partners, as well as counselling groups etc.
the point really is about using the chance to see others, talk real stuff, make up your own mind, check your value system, learn about other people's experiences, understand the statistics , understand the history , etc.
I was suggesting that her man should visit this site and have a look at other people's discussions, , experiences and ideas. - This all helps in opening up and improving communication. The constant 'sexist' type accusations and so on are a bit of a bore really and as I have said before - many times those sorts of instant judgments are usually designed to avoid discussion more than anything - which is just counter productive to any sort of communication but there will always be (no matter what the topic) those who are quicker to reach all sorts of judgments than others. Some people are more open to ideas - even if they are different to what they have been trained to believe.
I suppose some of the things which worry me about the csa are
unbalanced gender representation of employees and clients
mottos and jingle type drivers 'its all about the children'
Denial of rights
costly, difficult and takes a long time to dispute
bad computer systems and business process
expensive to operate and run
No compensatsion, recovery of back monies for some but for others
Lack of comprenesion of 'bigger picture'
But unlike the nazis or others of that ilk - pretends its something its not - sells the idea of 'good intentions' but is set up to act with more power and control than many orgs - devolved to CSA staff and contractors.
The government and the ones who get the money love CSA.
The standard binding financial agreements being used now are basically around allowing everyone to keep their own stuff and not be subject too ongoing 'support' via the old fashion notions of 'sacrifice my career' etc, etc. I don't call your ideas unintelligent Monte - would consider that bordering on not abiding by the rules of the site.
you are of course perfectly entitled to your opinion - it even adds to the debate which is ABOUT CSA INITIATED ACTION
which is about the HUGE POWERS of CSA and RELATED AGENCIES to extract money a number of ways over long periods of time using lots of government information and databases
And in response to original post - its because children are victims of breakdowns and need to be supported and the best way is to take money from payers as much and as quickly as possible.(lest the payees complain)
Monte - I have never taken CSA or any money from my ex - nor would I ever for anyone past , present or future - but that's just me, my position, my standards, my values. Hence I understand the position of NXUS (and that's something thing we can provide on this site - support and understanding)
good point Mike - I must admit I have not studied all the agencies in history and there must be some that would be worse than CSA - I agree those ones above seem far worse. There may even be a few others.
I Humbly apologize .
CSA is just one of the many atrocious organisations in history
I think all people need to build assertiveness (discussed at length elsewhere) but also recognise their emotions, validate their feelings and thoughts and be able to express themselves. It really can help with relationships. While it might be consider 'sexist' to suggest men need more help and special skills in this area than women - I still suggest it.
That does not mean I hate women or all women are bad all men are victims blah, etc. It just means - being a man entitles one to see oneself as A MAN (not the ultimate of denial - just a PERSON) and understand what that means to them.
In the same way its OK to see oneself as a WOMAN and whatever that means.
I personally believe that this gender view is one of the views people can use to see things another way - as well as the PERSON view, victim, hero view, roles, etc.
One of the problems is that strong or assertive people are sometime seen as too full on or aggressive so instead they become timid to and shy - rather than hurt those people afraid of them.
One of my friends told a story about himself growing up. All he said to me was 'I was tall for my age all through school'. This (with enough imagination) shows all sorts of abuses, taunting, fear, laughter, expectations and so on that one places on another person just because of THEIR biases and perceptions.
John I do not think your post was very helpful! It is more of an angry rant by a male who clearly suffered going through the system. Only a small majority of women use the tactics you describe, however, the nature of the site means that you will get to hear most of that small majority. People tend NOT to need help when both sides are being amicable. People come here because they are in conflict and need help. Do not judge what women or men do by your own bad experience, or by the postings on this site.
Prachay - Sage provides good advice
The main thing is men are allowed to get angry, frustrated, express dismay, call people for their actions, etc. Its very important to say things like 'What she has done to me is wrong - what she is doing to our child is wrong' 'i'm not perfect or nor is she but thats an action i think is bad'
This at least recognises (and validates) one's on view on the matter.
Then the questions is what to do about it.(and thats a whole series of things)
But on the inner level - When people are driven by fear, political correctness, confusion etc thatn they can sometimes not control their actions. This is the a problem.
your man has to build his strength and one of the most difficult things is to stand up to women, the politically correct, judges and so on. It takes real strength of character - particularly given the repression of people for decades.
Why I quoted Monte was to highlight some of the problems he will face. Those in power will judge, reach all sorts of conclusions, make personal attacks or accusations, get upset , misunderstand and so on - its par for the course. The main thing is for him to know what he thinks, wants and what he can do and can't do to make things better.
thanks to monte for illustrating the point so well.
nxus you and I agree on many issues. CSA is out of control but what worries me is that some people believe its by making small legislative enhancements , working within the system, not rocking the boat - is the only way to make things better.
I disagree with that approach with this CSA issue. CSAS should be nil for 50/50 to start with. Should be limited to first 5 years after separation and only if children are younger than school age. s79 issues should be removed from family law.
Unless radical reforms are done - who in their right mind will want to get married or have children.
If children at schools were educated in family law and CSA matters they will make up their minds (as they have been doing for some time now) appropriately.
CSA is the rotting corpse of an interventionist 'hero' government intent on fiddling while communities and families self destructs.
My guy and his ex wife are in a period of conflict right now, and it is not the first time they've fought, and now I finally think I see what is going on here. What I have realised is that about 90% of their confict is not about the child at all - it is their unresolved emotional issues from their marriage. The child and parenting responsibilities are just a handy excuse to have a dig at each other - admittedly mainly from her to him -but he capitulates and in my eyes is equally responsible for the situation.
My guy has moved on quite well from the end of the marriage - we now live together, are very happy, the child and I get along really well and they like me, the childsees how happy their dad is, and so on. He has the chlid every 2nd weekend. He pays more than the assessed child support on time every time - a four figure sum. He can afford the sum but has an unpredictable job - flexibility is required from both sides when it comes to contact with the child and so far it has happened, but it is becoming more difficult.
Their issues are usually about contact - she refuses to allow me to spend time with the child unless the father is around. I live with the father, and have known the kids for well over a year, and sometimes the father's job is such that he will ask me to collect the child for the weekend - maybe one in every 10 times. I have no issue with this, and neither does the child, who is early teens in age. The mother refuses to allow this, and now refuses to speak to the father, insisting only on email contact.
This is the source of the current battle between them. I think my guy needs to learn how to deal with his ex more effectively. So far he has sought her approval and acceptance, and it is never going to happen. He has become distracted from doing the right thing for the child, by wondering why she is being so difficult all the time.
I accept that she is jealous - her elder children have said this enough times - but I am not interested in having a competition with her. I just want some peace, and I hate seeing this child missing out and being caught in the middle. There are so many fun and beneficial things he can do with me and my folks, but he is not allowed, yet he wants to. I can understand why my guy avoids dealing with her and it is easier for him to give in because in the past their discussions always ended in conflict.
I suggested he look into independent counselling through the family court or similar - how can he find out more about this?
As a man who has evolved through various stages, white knight, hero, sex god,provider, father, perfect, not so perfect and a number of other roles and stages I feel what your guy needs is some straight talking. Counselors are fairly limited in my experience, he has to find this out himself and in a healthy way. He needs to practice NOW with you probably.
Women (as we see from this site) will routinely use power of AVOs, courts, CSA , tantrums, money, withholding children , etc. The reason they do this is to cause damage and make the man angry. The reason they do that is to 'bait' the man They often use controlling and 'baiting' techniques - especially when they cannot physically hit the man.
These games begin very early with females - Notice any playground or primary school and notice how girls hone their skills in social manipulation, exclusion and exercising control and power while the boys are kicking the footy or playing cricket.
Its these coversations he needs to see, have, accept etc - or a version of it. Stepping out of percieved roles and calling behaviouir for what it is in others AND ONES SELF is a VERY POWERFUL tool and can open up HEALTHIER and HAPPIER releationships. We all need to do this.
I'm a man with opinions, ideas, experiences, skills and faults and I am PROUD OF WHO I AM and I don't need or want other people's permission to be me.
(Moderator Note) Parts of this post have been deleted by a Site Moderator.
CSA are simply the worst organisation ever invented, the people in it are like you said but there are people like that in ALL government departments. Somehow the government thinks that by inventing these VERY POWERFUL organisations - but providing 'checks and balances' somehow peoples rights are protected. This simply is not the case.
Most government orgs will spend more time and energy defending themselves or at best 'trying to better next time' as if that means the problem is being effectively dealt with. NOR IS ANY COMPENSATION OR JUSTICE POSSIBLE.
Its wrong. CSA is too powerful invasive, unaccountable, protected, life damaging, etc
What gets me is that NO-ONE in government thinks that giving these agencies' (and SSAT and, relationship counsellors and magistrates,etc) HUGE POWERS to JUDGE PEOPLE, REMOVE CHILDREN, REMOVE MONEY ARBITRARILY is a problem.
Its a very sick society when the number of dead people, financially ruined,sick and traumatised people MEAN NOTHING to governments EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE THE ONES THAT CAUSED THE PROBLEM.
You would think that the declining marriage, increased divorce,problems with children, drop in birth rates and dead and homeless men might MEAN SOMETHING to government. But instead they rush to somehow consider GAY MARRIAGES as an important issue (hmmm maybe that will boost the numbers - make more complex CSA , family law cases etc.)
When children can decide to live where they choose:
I don't think children really should have the right to chose.
One of the reasons for giving them the right is based on the fear that they are living unbearable lives with one or the other or both parents - and that by giving them the choice the child is successfully escaping the unbearable life.
I think this whole notion needs to be rethought.
While no doubt there are variations and extremes to how children are raised - the bar should be the same level for everyone - i.e. docs intervention levels.
Also choice can be bad for children and lead to later problems.
My child (17) recently remembered her dreams to me - these were about being in a position of choosing between her parents. These dreams were full of guilt and apprehension. She also remembered being processed by the most evil of family court counselors (although that was probably my nightmare as well although I had never mentioned it my my children).
Those thoughts of having to choose worried her - although she never actually was put in that position.
My advise to her was
Both parents are different with good and bad
Like and dislike will vary over time - but they will always still be your parents
She didn't chose and I think its wrong that any child should