Donate Child Support Calculator
Skip navigation

One for all - I believe not

Add Topic

Parenting classes, improve parenthood, but then why do you not propose that all parents, separated or not must undergo such classes? Perhaps alternately explain why suddenly when divorced a parent suddenly loses parenting skills that were previously accep

Jadzia said
Post-separation counseling for all parties should be compulsory, nutting out ALL aspects of the post-separation relationship. That counselling should also allow for a team of independent counselors who can asses each situation and report their findings in a format that is admissible in court (i.e each parties behavior) should it all break down. Parenting courses for both parents would be beneficial.
I believe that this in many cases what you suggest would simply add yet another cog to the ever taking divorce industry, add yet another to listen to what are so very often false allegations and likely add yet another gender biased attitude and yet again, much the same with parenting courses.

Furthermore I think it very wrong to introduce a single process to deal with a multitude of differing scenarios, the fact is that every situation is different often very different. It would appear Jadzia, that you are perhaps a little keen to apply your situation and what you consider to be it's resolution to all situations.

However, why not show that parenting classes, improve parenthood, but then why do you not propose that all parents, separated or not must undergo such classes? Perhaps alternately explain why suddenly when divorced a parent suddenly loses parenting skills that were previously accepted by society? Perhaps what you are really saying is that you believe that your ex, not yourself, needs parenting classes and the ex having them, will in some way notch up a point in the "I am a better parent stakes". I guess very much the same applies to counselling.
I can see what you are saying, but what I was suggesting was to take away some of the cogs, especially the one that lines lawyers pockets. Yes I am using my experience as a basis but also the experience of just about everyone I have come across who is going through the divorce process. Once the step is taken it seems everyone wants to talk about their story, and I have only ever met one family who managed to go through the process without involving the kids and ended up in a better relationship - both re partnering and being one huge extended family. It may start as one for all but then tailored for each individual need.

What I proposed was just my thoughts, as you point out, but at least I am suggesting something that is non biased towards either faction of "him and her". I feel strongly that there is too much emphasis on "mothers rights" and "fathers rights" to the point that it all becomes a wrangle. I personally have tried to avoid the legal route because it seems that it is all too much of "well as the mother u can get this this and this", then to get that we go this legal merry go round that only pays token mention of what is right for the kids. I would dearly love a process where all parties are empowered to get the best possible result for all. The legal system doesn't allow for parents to work through their emotions to reach a point where those emotions don't dictate their reactions, all it does is heighten them and provide winners and losers.

I agree too that parenting classes for all parents would be very beneficial, especially for those with teens. There is plenty of support for new families but when the kids hit the tween/teen years parents are pretty much on their own, relying on ingenuity and friends for solutions to the issues that arise. Dare I mention it would be a better use of the $$ thrown at new parents these days, but that is another issue :P
 

When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
I read Jadzia's point as getting both parties into counselling to try and stop some of the nonsense that gets perpetrated. This is before lawyers get hold of them and fill people's heads with inflammatory suggestions.

Sadly, I don't think this would work because the personality types that go this way will either sit through counselling mouthing what they think needs to be heard while the internal voice in their head is saying "but I know better".

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Perhaps mediation would be more appropriate than counselling.
I tried mediation, once over property and kids, the other over kids. Agreements were made but he refused to sign them to make them binding. I also had to sit through him maligning me, claiming I should get very little out of settlement as HE was the one who contributed financially while I sat on my backside producing babies. The only funny thing about that was the look on the two female lawyers faces PLUS the male mediator. There was a whole 3 hours of similar stuff, and the situation that led to mediation just continued on as I can't afford legal or court costs.

In the end it achieved nothing - he still refuses to settle and uses the house I live in to try and control me (ie I see anyone he will sell the house etc).

We also went to post seperation counselling - His motivation was he thought I would move back at the end of it, misreading my attempt at keeping things friendly as weakness and that I would go back to him. Mine was to help us work things through amicably. The counsellor told us that if things continued then we would become highly volatile and even violent. He agreed to everything she said and changed his ways for 2 days after each session, day 3 I would get a call saying she was all wrong.

Having said that I can see huge implications in going to court and doing it the time honoured legal way. It is going to cost a fortune, just to get a result forced on us. If the model I suggested was in use then at least the behavior of both parents (it is never one sided no matter how much a victim one parent claims to be) can be addressed and hopefully worked through to a solution that suits all.

Divorce is not just about the legal and practical implications but also about the emotions and learned behaviours that need to be worked through. For those families that need it counselling that also can have practical uses in parenting plans, in court if needed, will help parents work through the feelings of hate, anger, vengeance, hurt etc etc that motivate all the issues of custody, parenting etc leading to better balanced parents and children who may never need to go to court.

I guess what I am saying is that when divorcing we need help that is practical - and that help doesn't just cover the practical arrangements.
 

When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
MikeT said
However, why not show that parenting classes, improve parenthood, but then why do you not propose that all parents, separated or not must undergo such classes? Perhaps alternately explain why suddenly when divorced a parent suddenly loses parenting skills that were previously accepted by society? Perhaps what you are really saying is that you believe that your ex, not yourself, needs parenting classes and the ex having them, will in some way notch up a point in the "I am a better parent stakes". I guess very much the same applies to counselling.
 
Mike T
Your argument is a little narrow. Divorced parents do not necessarily lose parenting skills because in a nuclear family skills are often shared or the more capable partner performs certain tasks. Not all Fathers are 'hands on' and many can look after young children for a day or so but often not for several days - in a nuclear family this matters little.

When it gets into Court it matters a great deal. I can assure you with the number of cases that we handle that 'some' Fathers do not have basic parenting skills. Sure they love their kids but there are some practical aspects to parenting as well.

An example is one we have at the moment. The child is 18 months and the Father admits to never bathing the child, never changing a nappy and perhaps only bottle feeding the child a couple of times - because "they were the Mothers jobs". Now of course it is going to Court. If he wants any sort of meaningful contact he is going to have to satisfy the Court that he can provide practical care.

Whilst there are many types of parenting courses available the ones we are interested in are those that provide those 'basic skills' or can provide information to a Court that they do exist - when the other side claims they do not
 

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Actually Agog, I believe that it is you who are narrowing things down, from a generalisation, to your one example. Does a parent in an intact family have to attend a parenting class to impress a family court, the only reason that I can see that you have given within your example. Furthermore I would suspect that there are many a mother who cannot safely bathe a child, but you seem fit to only mention fathers. In fact I have an example that I am aware of, she awoke to find her baby submerged.

The fact is, the ability of not being able to parent, is generally applied to fathers and is generally used to reinforce the societal myth that fathers in general do not have this mythical gift that mothers purportedly have of being born a parent.

In fact some research a few years ago, which was aired on DOTA, concluded that fathers were the better nappy changers.

However saying all that, it appears that you have fallen into the trap you appear to think that I have fallen into and that is being very narrow. Taking the one sentence out of the context of the whole text.   When it is clear, by reading the preceding paragraph/sentence, that my prime objection is the one fits all approach as opposed to the individual approach. Furthermore you also appear to have missed the fact that I was asking for an explanation of various possible scenarios and was in no way advocating any rather the opposite.

With regard to your court example, are you perhaps rater highlighting the mistake that the father in your example has been allowed to make, surely with good advice he would not have made such an admission, which was not an admission that he could so easily ascertain and learn the skills so easily? Perhaps the better thing to teach, would be how to counter such allegations, rather than how to submit to the derogatory, demeaning and gender biased court process?


it took all of a minute to find :-

Bathing Basics

You should give your baby a sponge bath until:

    * the umbilical cord falls off (1-4 weeks)
    * the circumcision heals (1-2 weeks)
    * the naval heals completely (1-4 weeks)

A bath two or three times a week in the first year is sufficient. More frequent bathing may be drying to the skin.

You'll need the following items before bathing your baby:

    * a soft, clean washcloth
    * mild, unscented baby soap and shampoo
    * a soft brush to stimulate the baby's scalp
    * towels or blankets
    * an infant tub with 2 to 3 inches of warm – not hot! – water (to test the water temperature, feel the water with the inside of your elbow or wrist). An infant tub is a plastic tub that can fit in the bathtub and is better fitted for the infant and makes bath time easier to manage.
    * a clean diaper
    * clean clothes

Sponge baths. For a sponge bath, pick a warm room and a flat surface, such as a changing table, floor, or counter. Undress your baby. Wipe your infant's eyes with a washcloth dampened with water only, starting with one eye and wiping from the inner corner to the outer corner. Use a clean corner of the washcloth to wash the other eye. Clean your baby's nose and ears with the washcloth. Then wet the cloth again, and using a little soap, wash his or her face gently and pat it dry. Next, using baby shampoo, create a lather and gently wash your baby's head and rinse. Using a wet cloth and soap, gently wash the rest of the baby, paying special attention to creases under the arms, behind the ears, around the neck, and the genital area. Once you have washed those areas, make sure they are dry and then diaper and dress your baby.

Tub baths. When your baby is ready for tub baths, the first baths should be gentle and brief. If he or she becomes upset, go back to sponge baths for a week or two, then try the bath again.

Undress your baby and then place him or her in the water immediately, in a warm room, to prevent chills. Make sure the water in the tub is no more than 2 to 3 inches deep, and that the water is no longer running in the tub. Use one of your hands to support the head and the other hand to guide the baby in feet-first. Speaking gently, slowly lower your baby up to the chest into the tub. Use a washcloth to wash his or her face and hair. Gently massage your baby's scalp with the pads of your fingers or a soft baby hairbrush, including the area over the fontanelles (soft spots) on the top of the head. When you rinse the soap or shampoo from your baby's head, cup your hand across the forehead so the suds run toward the sides and soap doesn't get into the eyes. Gently wash the rest of your baby's body with water and a small amount of soap. Throughout the bath, regularly pour water gently over your baby's body so he or she doesn't get cold. After the bath, wrap your baby in a towel immediately, making sure to cover his or her head. Baby towels with hoods are great for keeping a freshly washed baby warm.

While bathing your infant, never leave the baby alone. If you need to leave the bathroom, wrap the baby in a towel and take him or her with you.

Back to list
Circumcision and Umbilical Cord Care

Immediately after circumcision, the tip of the penis is usually covered with gauze coated with petroleum jelly to keep the wound from sticking to the diaper. Gently wipe the tip clean with warm water after a diaper change, then apply petroleum jelly to the tip so it doesn't stick to the diaper. Redness or irritation of the penis should heal within a few days, but if the redness or swelling increases or if pus-filled blisters form, infection may be present and you should call your baby's doctor immediately.

Umbilical cord care in newborns is also important. Some doctors suggest swabbing the area with rubbing alcohol until the cord stump dries up and falls off, usually in 10 days to 3 weeks, but others recommend leaving the area alone. Talk to your child's doctor to see what he or she prefers. The infant's navel area shouldn't be submerged in water until the cord stump falls off and the area is healed. Until it falls off, the cord stump will change color from yellow to brown or black – this is normal. Consult your doctor if the navel area becomes reddened or if a foul odor or discharge develops.
Hi Mike, I don't think Agog was being narrow, but rather directing his example at the majority audience. On this site, the majority is Dad's (non-resident) striving to have access to their child. In this case his example is suitable.

The typical arguments, from Mum, when going to court are: He was never hands-on, he couldn't care for the children that long (and of course, this entrenches every second weekend access), I'm the primary carer and the child is heavily bonded to me….these are all arguments that Dad's need to undercut, if they are serious in gaining more time.

There are the more belligerent Mum's, who don't want any access who will criticise lifestyle, insinuate abuse potential and will simply unilaterally relocate. This is harder to fight.

On the other side of the coin, there are issues that Mum's face:

When I became a single mum, one of the hardest things I had to up the ante on was discipline. It was easier for me to give in to the kids, rather than discipline properly, when I was (initially) in such an exhausted state post separation. Parenting courses are particularly good for this.


Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
 
MikeT said
Does a parent in an intact family have to attend a parenting class to impress a family court
I actually thought of parenting classes to give parents alternative strategies and support in child rearing issues thus improving the relationship the child has with the parent, which would go a long way to removing some of the objections placed to access/custody such as "he was never hands on".

Any parent who does stuff just to impress a family court needs vital body parts cut off lol!!! Isn't the object of all we go through to improve things for our kids not fulfil our own little agendas.

When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
 
Jadzia said
Any parent who does stuff just to impress a family court needs vital body parts cut off lol!!! Isn't the object of all we go through to improve things for our kids not fulfil our own little agendas.

 
Unfortunately yes sometimes the Court needs to be impressed or convinced

Some years ago we ran a case where the child was quite young and the Mother was constantly making the 'no experience argument'. With the highly supervised and limited contact he wasn't get any chance to improve his skills either. What he was requesting was in fact extremely reasonable
He took himself off to get a couple of specialized courses 'under his belt'. On the day of the 'Finals' he very quickly handed up his certificates. Yes they did impress the Court and the FM even discussed one of the courses with him.

The FM very acidly said to the other sides solicitor "Now I am not going to hear any MORE arguments from you about his lack of skills AM I" (This was a reference to previous Interims)

Of course the response was "No your Honour"

He received the orders he was seeking

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
 In that case then definatly yes, impress them. I was thinking more along the lines of people who are all talk and no action, ie do the impress thing with no intention of carrying it on. In your example, the father not only had the courses improve his credibility but also his skills did he not?

How good are the courts at seeing through parents who try to impress them superficially? For example an abusive partner who are often seen to be the most charming, lovely person to most people, who are surprised and even shocked to find out that the nice person is actually an abuser.



When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
Morning and Happy New Year all, may I try to be a devils advocate here? Lol.

My understanding is it is "the best interest of the children" that is paramount at Law, it is not the Law but Lawyers, Judges and people who make a gender based argument to distract the issues of  the Laws requirement for  "the best interest of the children" to be paramount."

Please all remember our terms used here are general but only a small percentage of the cases are volatile or reported as such.

Mike T said  "Post-separation counseling for all parties should be compulsory, nutting out ALL aspects of the post-separation relationship. That counselling should also allow for a team of independent counselors who can asses each situation and report their findings in a format that is admissible in court (i.e each parties behavior) should it all break down. Parenting courses for both parents would be beneficial."

Artemis said "read Jadzia's point as getting both parties into counselling to try and stop some of the nonsense that gets perpetrated. This is before lawyers get hold of them and fill people's heads with inflammatory suggestions.
Sadly, I don't think this would work because the personality types that go this way will either sit through counselling mouthing what they think needs to be heard while the internal voice in their head is saying "but I know better".


Jadzia said "I agree too that parenting classes for all parents would be very beneficial, especially for those with teens. There is plenty of support for new families but when the kids hit the tween/teen years parents are pretty much on their own, relying on ingenuity and friends for solutions to the issues that arise. Dare I mention it would be a better use of the $$ thrown at new parents these days, but that is another issue."


If I may continue this tread, the Family Law I believe (or will by
1 July 2008) require certificates to prove Pre-action procedures have taken place pursuant to <span%20style=" rel="nofollow">http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_reg/flr2004163/sch1.html.

To help with this process I would put forward the Dispute Resolution Mediator or Counsellor (mediator or counsellor) who grants these certificates be given powers to cause both the parties attend Parenting and Anger management. This when it is apparent the purpose of this process ("making a genuine effort to resolve the dispute before starting a case&quot is waisted due to the animosity of one of both parties.

I put it, both parties should be caused to do the course/s to dismiss the appearance of bias and show both parties "are making a genuine effort to resolve the dispute before starting a case". This could be used as a big stick to cause warring parties to set aside their grievances, to focus on the children and be beneficial to the children. It will cause delays to the making of Orders but what is the purpose here? The Best Interests of the Children pursue the Law and "making a genuine effort to resolve the dispute before starting a case".

The power to refuse the required certificate could be ongoing were the benefit of the first course is not demonstrated by one of the parties in answer to Jadzia said "He agreed to everything she said and changed his ways for 2 days after each session, day 3 I would get a call saying she was all wrong."

Remember the %age of warring parties to the number of divorces is small so any general comment should in fact only be taken as a comment towards those parties. Not that the courses would not be beneficial to all but why waist resources on the parties demonstrating the fundamentals already.

Mike T's "Post-separation counseling for all parties should be compulsory" should probably have been, Post-separation counselling for all WARRING parties should be compulsory, this I agree with as would most I think.

Jadzia, by the time children are over about 10yrs their behaviour patterns have been formed in the mind. That is, they know what they can get away with and if they can not now, because of some change in the parents tolerance of that behaviour, they know how to cause that tolerance to be regained with little effort.


The effort of maintaining intolerance for unacceptable behaviour and the constant "I wants" is rewarded when they are, as you put it, in their tween/teen years their acceptance of needs verses wants and appropriate behaviour has become their acceptance of the norm so easier to enforce when they are stronger to resist in their tween/teen years.

This I think you know by what you said with; "When I became a single mum, one of the hardest things I had to up the ante on was discipline. It was easier for me to give in to the kids, rather than discipline properly, when I was (initially) in such an exhausted state post separation. Parenting courses are particularly good for this."

Children 10 and under will tolerate "Stand and Think Time" or "Time Out" facing a wall for about 1 minute per year of age, in full family view. As you probably know, sending them to their room is no punishment for a child, that is were their games, Ipod and TV are. A child demonstrating intolerable behaviour is often demonstrating behaviour learnt from a parent, warring parents cause warring children in the few cases I have seen. The children demonstrate a "I wants" mentality due to their hurt, confusion and loss of safe family environment just like the warring parties.

Jadzia, I think your point is not off topic but the outcome of a lack of ability to direct warring parties to the courses before it is too late (in Court) or at least at the earliest time.

Regarding your Orders "Agreements were made but he refused to sign them to make them binding." "In the end it achieved nothing - he still refuses to settle and uses the house I live in to try and control me (ie I see anyone he will sell the house etc)."

Maybe the administrators could help you get the Orders through the FMC on the basis of "Promissory Estoppel" it would require the mediator or counsellor to give evidence of the verbal agreement and the unreasonableness of not signing the Orders agreed to. Yes the Court is the ONLY avenue of enforcement but you are over halfway there in my view.

If you do it yourself the cost is minimal, Lawyers are not needed depending on your willingness to stand up and talk for yourself.

FM's and Judges are people like you and I, they don't bite, hit or yell with few exceptions (like the people they are).

The idea of DIDS for dads to practice presenting their case to the meeting is excellent and you can do this in one of your woman's support groups. A group of friends does not always work because they know what you are saying so miss the obscurity of how you are saying it and it is the obscurity within your words that leave Judges in a state of incomprehensibility. Take it from one who has walked the fine line of Contempt.

On topic of "One for all - I believe not" lol.

In summary my points are;
1.   Law is needed to enable mediators and counsellors to cause Warring Parties to go to both parenting and/or anger management classes or ability to seek FM makes such an Order and ongoing Order to assist in the mediation process for "are making a genuine effort to resolve the dispute before starting a case" to be demonstrated by the parties.
2.   Parenting and/or anger management classes are in the "Best Interest of the Children" where there are warring parties, this would assist children in learning anger management, boundaries, and their needs instead of their wants instead of how to war from their parents.
3.   Parenting and anger management classes are in the "Best Interest of the Children" where more than two dispute resolution meetings are required or verbal agreements are not signed within 14 days of the agreement.
4.   The use of parenting and anger management classes could be use as a big stick by a mediator or counsellor to diminish the "Magellan" work load in the same way we teach children, if you don't learn this time you will have to do it again.
5.   Where verbal agreements are made avenues of enforcement need to be put in place so the process is not waisted or bogged down.
6.   Acceptance that general comments in the posts are how we talk rather than the precise meaning of what we say, the concise meaning of what we say would be to wordy like this post.

In addition the family court have produced this book, "
Finding A Better Way:"
. It is about 107 pages by Margaret Harrison April 2007 where Bryant CJ acknowledges the Family Law concepts of today were started by Nicholson CJ (as then known) and others who should take praise in my view for starting the ball to a more appropriate direction of Court/Family negotiated agreements. There is some interesting case law in it and maybe references for in Court to assist their direction of thinking to the new way.

At page 70 it supplies that Judges have; "A video on the impact of conflict on children is available for the parties to watch, prior to the first appearance before the judge or at a later stag". Is this video available to mediators and counsellors to use as a first step in lue of Parenting and anger management classes to wake up the parties.

Is this book "Finding A Better Way:" available to be given to ALL PARTIES, not just warring parties, before the first mediation or counselling session to assist in amicable discussions. I think if it is required reading before the first session and if not read (questions answered from specific parts of the book) go away till you can give the answers. I think this type of direction would help streamline the "making a genuine effort to resolve the dispute before starting a case" and diminish the animosity mediators and counsellors would have to endue.

Your thoughts welcome on how we can proceed on these things if any of you agree or disagree (is it a pie in the sky or the direction of Family Law or both?).
http://www.familycourt..._better_way_april2007.pdf/




Last edit: by No-Justice

Amen to that, the only thing I can find to disagree with is you cited the wrong names to the quotes of prior posts :P

The video you mentioned will be shown at the mediation session IF my ex responds to the letters and attends the FRC Mediation. We then have to go onto a 3 hour parenting class (hopefully NOT at the same time!)

Unfortunately the past non compliance apparently won't be taken into consideration, we have to start the whole process again, which may take months. Also anything said in past counselling/mediation sessions is in confidence and not allowed to be used. Hence my suggestion that there should be the ability to use such information as it shows the willingness or lack thereof of warring parties to do the right thing.

Actually if anyone is interested in "watching the process" of the new procedures I am happy to start a thread in the appropriate place and post updates as the process moves along.
 

When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
My apologise Jadzia you are right MikeT was quoting you.

You said, "We then have to go onto a 3 hour parenting class (hopefully NOT at the same time!)" does this thinking not undermine the parenting class by allowing the argument "I was not taught that or I don't remember that" by him. Your acceptance to learn with him would demonstrate you are putting the children first. Also demonstrate you are "making a genuine effort to resolve the dispute before starting a case" which if pointed out to him could cause him to realise the disadvantage he is putting himself at by not working with you.

Yes, it is hard but you are in a class environment, I think, not a one on one so other than good behaviour will not be tolerated. Plus other than good behaviour would not demonstrate an acceptable leave of completion of the course in my mind.

I wonder if the agreement not signed would come under the outcome of the sessions thereby admissible rather than something said. Transcripts report what is said and not the outcome which are Orders. The evidence would be only that agreement was reached and what the agreement was therefore not strictly, what was said. Legal argument for a Legal trained mind not mine.



 
MikeT said
Actually Agog, I believe that it is you who are narrowing things down, from a generalisation, to your one example. Does a parent in an intact family have to attend a parenting class to impress a family court, the only reason that I can see that you have given within your example. Furthermore I would suspect that there are many a mother who cannot safely bathe a child, but you seem fit to only mention fathers. In fact I have an example that I am aware of, she awoke to find her baby submerged.
There are many similar examples I can provide, this was used as an illustration.
what I said was 'because in a nuclear family skills are often shared or the more capable partner performs certain tasks. Not all Fathers are 'hands on' and many can look after young children for a day or so but often not for several days - in a nuclear family this matters little'. ' if you took this to read all Fathers then you are not being objective

MikeT said
The fact is, the ability of not being able to parent, is generally applied to fathers and is generally used to reinforce the societal myth that fathers in general do not have this mythical gift that mothers purportedly have of being born a parent.
 

One trend which has greatly accelerated over the last 30 years is real hands on physical parenting from Fathers but this does not mean that all Fathers do this. Some still believe in the traditional Mothers role and you should realize that many of the cultures that comprise Australian society have this as their intrinsic parenting division. In many households the Father is capable of providing for all the physical and emotional needs of the children but this does not mean that all are

 
MikeT said
In fact some research a few years ago, which was aired on DOTA, concluded that fathers were the better nappy changers.
 

Research from who? And does nappy changing therefore make you able to handle the other needs?

 

MikeT said
However saying all that, it appears that you have fallen into the trap you appear to think that I have fallen into and that is being very narrow. Taking the one sentence out of the context of the whole text.   When it is clear, by reading the preceding paragraph/sentence, that my prime objection is the one fits all approach as opposed to the individual approach. Furthermore you also appear to have missed the fact that I was asking for an explanation of various possible scenarios and was in no way advocating any rather the opposite.
 

Sorry but you are creating the so called trap by quoting the so called 'one size fits all' approach. How many Court hearings have you been involved with and with how many people to make this broad statement?

 
MikeT said
With regard to your court example, are you perhaps rater highlighting the mistake that the father in your example has been allowed to make, surely with good advice he would not have made such an admission, which was not an admission that he could so easily ascertain and learn the skills so easily? Perhaps the better thing to teach, would be how to counter such allegations, rather than how to submit to the derogatory, demeaning and gender biased court process?
  This one example is not untypical in regard to very young children. Get the terminology correct it was an allegation supported by fact which to the Court meant it was no longer an allegation but a 'fact'. The best way to defeat this is to prove it is was or is no longer relevant. It is advice we frequently give; and in this situation was ignored, worryingly so since the Father had multiple opportunities to both learn and practice physical parenting skills.
Now if you were the judge in this case would you let this Father have 4 days at a time with a child he could not physically care for? after admitting he had no idea of what the child ate or even how to prepare food for the child

There is a judgment on this site from Altobelli giving 'shared care' for an 18 month old because the Fathers physical (and emotional) parenting skills were never in doubt. This was from your 'derogatory, demeaning and gender biased court process'

You go on to give a list of various basics but without practical application and practice - they mean nothing. An example you have access to all the Courts Acts, regulations, procedures et al but they are nothing more than a set of guidelines until you have the experience of the practical world in which the system actually operates in.

My comments and opinions are based on being very well informed from direct first hand knowledge from hundreds of cases not from third hand knowledge of a few.
You should understand that not all people present a true view of their experiences and either deliberately or subconsciously try to paint themselves in a better light. Most web sites be they, male or female tend to play on what went wrong or how they were wronged. To my knowledge there are no sites that focus on good outcomes. Making broad assumptions without adequate knowledge of the way the system functions or knowledge of how a decision was reached or assuming its 'broke' is little better than walking into K Mart, seeing 4 people at the complaints desk and assuming the store has a problem without considering there may be satisfied customers in the store



 

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
 
No-Justice said
Please all remember our terms used here are general but only a small percentage of the cases are volatile or reported as such.
 

This is very true and something frequently overlooked

No-Justice said
Maybe the administrators could help you get the Orders through the FMC on the basis of "Promissory Estoppel" it would require the mediator or counsellor to give evidence of the verbal agreement and the unreasonableness of not signing the Orders agreed to. Yes the Court is the onLY avenue of enforcement but you are over halfway there in my view.

 

This was a disingenuous suggestion and makes nonsense of your so called knowledge of Family Law. Since when has this been an argument in the Family Courts?
Since Counselling/Mediation sessions are private (unless Court ordered otherwise) you will not get evidence from them.
This type of estoppel is generally only valid in commercial law.

The site administrators are too busy with the site, what makes you think they get involved in the Courtroom? - that is the work of the specialist organizations


Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Thanks how did I make that mistake,it is the Hon Robert McClelland MP, maybe it is about time the PM was informed of my issues with the Court not that he will be allowed to see the fax.



Last edit: by No-Justice

Sorry No Justice, my comment does show that I would prefer not to have parenting classes with my ex, but that is purely because of the highly volatile relationship.  Which is one of the reasons I need a lawyer to help with the court, and cannot represent myself.

When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
 
No-Justice said
Thanks how did I make that mistake,it is the Hon Robert McClelland MP, maybe it is about time the PM was informed of my issues with the Court not that he will be allowed to see the fax.
 
The new Prime Minister will have nothing better to do than to listen to your issues. I think issues concerning health, the economy and the situation in in Iraq and Afghanistan should be put on hold.

Do you really think the AG withholds information from the PM?

FAX - you have got to be joking! Hard copy by Courier or registered mail!

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
I can understand that, I have assisted a few couples with their court things following the guidelines of a Case Guardian or mediator. That is pursuing what is in the best interests of the children, it is hard to stay neutral when a parent is totally closed minded. You have no control over his behaviour but as my Mum said to me don't lower myself to the falsehoods or anger and alienation of my Ex. It didn't help in Court, the Judge thought he must protect the mother from the Law.

The mother, my Ex had contravened Orders is a serious way, made provable false statements in affidavits, provably fabricated evidence and admitted to child abuse of our son.

Last edit: by No-Justice

1 guest and 0 members have just viewed this.

Recent Tweets