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11f memorandum

The family consultant made numerous mistakes of facts and didn't even view the subpoenaed documents.

An interim parenting order was made based on an 11f memorandum to the court.  The family consultant made numerous mistakes of facts and didn't even view the subpoenaed documents.  The judge made several mentions to the report in her reasons for judgement and regarded the report as 'best evidence'.

My question is why can a Judge have regard to the report even if it's disputed?

... And at the same time exclude a final intervention order for the same reason?
Did you submit a formal response to the report to the court with evidence attached?
Im curious to follow the answers you get as Im heading to trial myself with a very factually incorrect single expert witness report. But Luckily I asked the magistrate if i could file a response with affidavits from other witnesses as evidence against what was said in the report and he said yes.
Also did you cross examine the report writer?
The report was handed to us on the morning of the hearing so even though I strongly opposed it I didn't have an opportunity to file anything.

Also because it was an interim hearing there was no cross-examination etc.

I am now in the process of appealing the orders and have another hearing to have the orders stayed before the same judge.

But I can't seem to find any references to procedure guidelines or law regarding interim hearings and expert reports.
Are both of you in the same courts? Which court are you in ... Federal Circuit Court or Family Law Court? Interim orders are almost always done based on affidavit material and dealing with any objection to 61DA the Presumption of equal shared parental responsibility when making parenting orders.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
The interim orders were made in the federal circuit court and that's where the 11f report was provided.  

The appeal is going to be heard in the family court.

I have also applied to have the interim orders stayed (Application in a case) pending appeal and that's before the judge that made the interim order in the federal circuit court.
You will find that the 11f usually gives the judge something to go on in the interim and that you pretty much have zero chance of testing anything in the 11f on the day

This report is only a limited issues report that is meant to identify the things in dispute and the best way to move forward in the interim it is not a full family report

How many other people were on the court list on the day you got your orders made ? I bet it was between 15 and 30 you are lucky to get 5 minutes

Unless there were actual serious errors in law it's pretty pointless filing an appeal have you identified any actual errors in law?

So much stuff goes untested for a very long time and get this stuff has orders made based on it it's the nature of the Beast and there is pretty much nothing you can do to stop it

Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you.... Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Have you reviewed any cases such as:
Family Court of Australia, Full Court, 08 March 2016
MEDLOW & MEDLOW (2016) FLC

Family Court of Australia, Full Court, 24 March 2016
X CORPORATION PTY LTD & JESS AND ANOR (2016) FLC

Family Court of Australia, Full Court, 29 April 2016
SAHADI & SAVVA AND ANOR (2016) FLC

These are a few… I have not reviewed them but you can start to look at reasons etc. The appeal process is found on the respective court websites.

For example - See http://www.federalcircuitcourt.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/fccweb/family-law-matters/appeals-process/
For Federal Circuit Court.

The places to go for the procedure are the Court Rules (Family Law Rules), The Acts are the Family Law Act, and Family Law Regulations as well as The Evidence Act.

Be AWARE there are tight timeframes in which to lodge Appeals. There is a lot of material around Appeals where you are seeking to lodge out of time.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
The Wolf said
… Unless there were actual serious errors in law it's pretty pointless filing an appeal have you identified any actual errors in law?

So much stuff goes untested for a very long time and get this stuff has orders made based on it it's the nature of the Beast and there is pretty much nothing you can do to stop it
There needs to be a lot more effort from court participants in responding to the likes of the ALRC inquiry into the way family law cases work and effect some real change. We all accept it is a pretty onerous task trying to change decisions and certainly so based on interim documents… but you so correctly allude to the fact that interim orders can tend to become final after years of litigation as defacto orders.


Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
surprise surprise Claralyn, that happened to me too. I got the report from the "expert" on the day of our readiness hearing, which was three weeks after all of our trial evidence was due. How is that allowed??
Luckily for me I had arrived very early to court and had a chance to read through it and bought the factual errors to the attention of the magistrate who allowed me to file further documents for trial in response to it.
Seems to be a lot of colluding between ICL's and Experts so the ICLs get the response that they want and make it impossible almost for it to be disputed if you don't know whats in the report until after your evidence has already been filed.
Its pretty sickening how many people I've connected with in online forums who have a similar story to mine.
Yes there were pretty serious errors, the father suffers from serious mental illnesses, has anger management issues, he isn't being treated by a mental health professional, there is currently a final family violence order in place (no contact) save the usual family law exceptions.

The 11f recommended that the father have unsupervised time with our 3 yr old daughter.

The judge made orders based on the 11f recommendations, made comments she had regards to the 11f report in her judgement.  Made no comment to the police records on file or applied sect 68p.  

There are other mistakes as to law. But i'm focusing on the 11f because that's where I feel this whole snowball effect disaster begun.

Same here, VRO protecting the child (no contact) hasn't seen the father for nearly 2 years and the "expert" says because no charges were laid I must be coaching the child and the recommend removal from me and into the alleged abusers care.
No charges were laid because the police absolutely failed in their investigation, waiting 3 weeks before getting him in for an interview when he was only just 4 for a start. I even have a letter of apology from the police which the ICL & "expert" refuse to acknowledge. The DCP review is currently under independent investigation and has been reported to the CCC. The failed to interview me or my son, they only interviewed the father and then released a letter to the court stating "No harm was done to the child"
The level of incompetence I have faced at every turn in dealing with government departments and court staff is an absolute disgrace to Australia.
And do you have medical professional evidence to backup your claims or is it just something you are saying

If you don't have an actual qualified person who is stating these things and that they impact his ability to parent you have almost no chance whatsoever of getting this over the line

Even subpoenaed medical records that show depression or the like will not be enough. As for the protection order has he been charged with breaching it has he been convicted of breaching it ?

Protection orders are given out like toilet paper but it's for breaches that are serious

Be very careful if you are making unsubstantiated claims based on someone going to see a doctor and you do not have actual real qualified psychiatrists to back up what you are saying because it could backfire on you quite badly

How much time was he given ?

Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you.... Purple Monkey Dishwasher
He's on a disability pension due to his mental illnesses, having been diagnosed with bipolar among other things, the court ordered a psych assessment to be carried out.

They thought it necessary to have him evaluated but until they get the result no caution is taken?

This is the second intervention order that's been taken out against him and the first was taken out by the police following an incident.

He has breached the order but when I went to the police to report it they said that because the family order is unclear they couldn't do anything.

I understand what you are saying about unsubstantiated claims, but intervention orders being given out like toilet paper is not entirely true.

Interim intervention orders I agree can be obtained easily and even without the respondents knowledge, but to obtain a final order is not easy at all especially if the respondent wants to fight it so to disregard it is a critical error.
Claralyn said
He's on a disability pension due to his mental illnesses, having been diagnosed with bipolar among other things, the court ordered a psych assessment to be carried out

Erm, I am on DSP and i have custody/live with of my 7 year old son. He sees Mum 2 nights a fortnight and not even half the holidays.

As a condition of  getting DSP your illness has to be diagnosed treated and STABILISED. and trust me, they mean stabilised. If this is what you are relying on you only have to look at my good self to see the flaws in your argument.

You might well find someone who is treated and stabilised gets rewarded by the court rather than punished

Another huge question is, does this supposed mental illness actually affect his capacity to parent. It seems like it has been decided, even if its just in the interim, that it is not. Plenty of people with mental illnesses/disabilities look after kids perfectly well. and i am one of them

and i am sorry but protection orders are given out both interim AND final willy nilly like toilet paper. but i wont get into an argument with you about it  So……how much time did Dad get with the kid??


Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you.... Purple Monkey Dishwasher
I'm sorry if my DSP comment offended, are you on DSP due to mental illness too?  I also know that STABILISED conditions can become UNSTABILISED if a person ceases to take their prescribed medication.

There is medical evidence that he was being prescribed mood stabilisers and that he is no longer being prescribed them, but no explanation as to why he is no longer taking them.

He could have woken up one day and decided that he is fine and chose to stop.

There's also evidence that he was seeing a psychologist and he no longer is, again he could have well decided on his own that he no longer needs to see this professional.

He was awarded w/end day time visits once a month, but that's by his own choice not because i'm restricting how much time he gets.

I am genuinely concerned for my 3yr old daughters safety and all I've been requesting is that until he's been assessed his time is either supervised or at a public place such as a play centre.
It is only your assumption he gave up medication voluntarily and that he stopped seeing a psychologist voluntarily he could easily have come from his doctor after being stabilized

For a few hours once a month you are making an incredible fuss and I think you should settle down enjoy the few hours of break you will get and let Dad see daughter

A few hours a month is absolutely nothing and if he is diagnosed as stabilised that time will probably increase well before any final hearing

Oh and you didn't offend me I was just telling you where I was at

Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you.... Purple Monkey Dishwasher
I'm not assuming anything, given that I have lived and witnessed and experienced how this man becomes when he doesn't take his medication I am entitled to an answer to my questions.

I would love to sit back and enjoy the few hours break but no mother in her right mind could sit back knowing that her child might be getting abused.

I also point out that you are assuming he has the capacity to care for the child while stating that i'm assuming otherwise.

When considering that the consequences are irreversible it's not unreasonable to be safe than sorry.
Unfortunately what you "think" or "feel" means absolutely nothing when it comes to court, neither does assumptions based of what might have happened at some other time. or "might"

So far, your responses have been emotional, and i understand that but emotional thought patterns are useless when it comes to running a court case . They get you nowhere

All that counts is cold hard evidence and facts backed up by a medical professional . I would say three hours a month IS being safe. but what i think does not matter, the judge and 11f writer, who are both very experienced, seemed to think so too

Are you represented?

Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you.... Purple Monkey Dishwasher
So a police record documenting violent episodes, medical records documenting anger, frequent and severe mood swings and self harm indicators and 2 police intervention orders are not evidence?

But a 45 min interview with a social worker is? A family consultant isn't qualified to assess mental illnesses, actually even a psychiatrist can't diagnose anyone in 45 min.

It not 3 hrs, it's 6 hrs on a Saturday and 6 hrs on a Sunday, but the point is that he can spend as much time as he wants, all he had to do is get a letter from his doctor saying he's the one that took him off his meds.

But as you said yourself cold hard evidence and facts backed up by medical professional, why doesn't it apply both ways?  The judge and family consultant both have to make their choices on the evidence, how can they determine for the father when he has no evidence?
Claralyn said
So a police record documenting violent episodes, medical records documenting anger, frequent and severe mood swings and self harm indicators and 2 police intervention orders are not evidence?
Not for what you are trying to achieve in the interim, no

Claralyn said
But a 45 min interview with a social worker is? A family consultant isn't qualified to assess mental illnesses, actually even a psychiatrist can't diagnose anyone in 45 min.
I doubt they diagnosed anyone, but then again, neither have you. They are court appointed professionals who help make interim decisions, which is what they did.

Claralyn said
It not 3 hrs, it's 6 hrs on a Saturday and 6 hrs on a Sunday, but the point is that he can spend as much time as he wants, all he had to do is get a letter from his doctor saying he's the one that took him off his meds.
Three hours or 6.. its no difference really., it's very limited time And if he does, you should be extremely happy he is treated and stabilised enough to allow his daughter to see him.

You cannot expect anyone to stay on medication forever just because you think it might be the right thing. Its almost as if you do not want him to have improved.

Claralyn said
But as you said yourself cold hard evidence and facts backed up by medical professional, why doesn't it apply both ways?  The judge and family consultant both have to make their choices on the evidence, how can they determine for the father when he has no evidence?
You have no idea what he actually said in the room or how he presented. WHen was the last time you actually spent time with him? 11f reports are not written word for word, again, you saying he has presented no evidence is just a guess. its another "I think"

You can save yourself a world of pain if you stop stressing on things out of your control. You have to accept that both the writer and the judge have decided that 6 hours a month is ok and unless you find a REAL avenue of appeal, move on to the next phase of the case. You are in this for the long haul.

Please realise that myself and others on this site see the same stories over and over and over again and every single person who has the same story as the next person thinks what they are going through is unique and deserves some magic answer when in fact, you all pretty much sound alike and have similar stories to tell.

Not having a go, just letting you know your situation is not unusual at all, and neither is your reaction to it . The more you beat yourself up in your head about it, the more you're going to come across as negative and uncooperative  in court and that is the last thing you want to happen.. Barring any major stuff ups from Dad and mental illness or not this man is going to end up with time with your child, even if it stays as it is now…. really.
 

Last edit: by The Wolf


Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you.... Purple Monkey Dishwasher
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