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International Relocation - Passport up for Renewal for Child

Husband's ex relocated to the US 5 years ago and failed to tell him of her intention to relocate at the time he signed the passport for his child.

Kiki.  There are a few things I don’t seem to understand here.  I know that everyone has been referring to this supposed 5 year gap in the father seeing the child since the mother moved overseas for work, but you mentioned somewhere that the child is 11 years old and also seemed to imply somewhere else that it was sometime around the birth of the child that the apparent “agreement” between to the mother and father was reached?  How long has it been exactly since the father saw the child???

Also, you say that the father had no idea of the mothers move? Do you mean that he did not know of the address she would be moving to in the States?   It seems to me that as he would have needed to sign a passport in the first instance that he must have known she was moving.

I’m afraid that some of the details you have supplied between posts seem quite contradictory and leave you open to possible reader skepticism and further questioning.

While you certainly appear to care about your husband and clearly want to support him, given I suspect you have never met the child or the mother (have you?), I still question if denying realities and taking a more aggressive approach just to try and save your husband from his feelings and any anguish he considers to be past mistakes is the best way to do this?

In all honesty, do you really believe that uplifting an 11 year old child from their life, when after 5 years they are now probably settled, is the best way to do this?  Would you want this for your own child??

Just so you know, I don’t give a toss about the mother!!  What I care about is the lack of reasoning you have given to indicate that this 11 year old child should now be uplifted and stuffed around just because mum and dad, quite possibly some 11 years ago, both couldn’t get their s**t together and do what was best for him!!

I agree that rather than forcing the child to return to Australia, that other options should be explored.
 

Any opinions expressed herein are strictly for informational purposes and are never to be taken as legal advice.
Kiki. I have had the time to have a comprehensive read of every post you have made on this forum going right back to 2010 and there seem to be a lot of information given to you already on things you are asking about in here

Way back in 2010, you indicated that your partner’s other ex was thinking of moving. At that time Agog gave you some advice on what to do

Agog said
Approaching an FRC to mediate or in the event of unsuccessful mediation a 60i certificate to initiate Court action. Lodging an application with the Courts.
In the event that you might consider that a move might occur before mediation has been completed, lodging an Urgent Application in the Courts
At this time, there is no mention of the other partner, the one you are talking about now having gone overseas. All of the posts were in relation to the other two children

Then, in 2011, again you post about the first ex-partner trying to self-harm, again, i have reviewed the thread and there is no mention of the Mother and child who have relocated to the USA

Kikki said
Hi everyone. I'm hoping to get some advice. Over the Christmas holidays, my husband's ex-wife tried to commit suicide for the third time. She's been treated for bipolar disorder for the last few years and from what we know of, is still on her medication (although we can't be certain). This hasn't come as a surprise to us.
Then, in 2012, you again start to talk about the other two children and Mother number one, this time in relation to the eldest one not wanting to come to your house and how you can get out of paying child support. There is still no mention of the child and Mum that has gone to the USE, and by your account, she would already have been there for almost 2 years at this time

Kikki said
Hi everyone. I'm hoping to get some advice. Over the Christmas holidays, my husband's ex-wife tried to commit suicide for the third time. She's been treated for bipolar disorder for the last few years and from what we know of, is still on her medication (although we can't be certain). This hasn't come as a surprise to us.
Then, in 2013 you post further about the two children in Australia and their mum, again, CSA related and again there is no mention of the child and Mum in the USA

Kikki said
 Hi everyone! I was hoping to get some advice. Husband has just informed the CSA that he was made redundant in December and his CS payments have been reduced accordingly. Through our own ignorance with how the system works, he didn't inform them of his change of circumstances at the time and we now realise that we have been paying CS in excess of what we should have been under our current circumstances for the last four months.
My question is, can we apply to have the reduced payments backdated? Is there a grace period? I have heard that CSA will happily backdate if there has been an underpayment, so does the same logic apply to overpayments?
Then, from August 2013 you do start to mention the child and Mum in the USA, but only in relation to CSA payments. I cannot see one single post where you say "What can we do to get this child back to Australia" or "we want to see the child"

There are a couple of posts in 2014, still on the same theme as the others in relation to the child in the USA, all about money and how hard done by you are because of how much you have to pay and asking various things in relation to backdating, bonuses and the like.  and then. Nothing, for two whole years up until you started your latest thread

This latest thread is the ONLY one that you have even began to say that you wanted to do something about the Mum and Child in the USA.

Based on this I have some questions

1: If your hubby was so cut up about his Child leaving the country in 2010 or 2011, how come when you asked for advice relation to the other two kids and Mum you never ever mentioned this situation once?

A reasonable person would assume that, if your husband is so cut up about it in 2016 and you are asking advice, then why were you not talking about it back then too to try to see what you could do

2: Why is every single post you make talking about the financial impact on yourself in relation to the Children. I can’t find one single time you have said "We love the kids and want them back to be part of the family" In fact, it has quite shocked me just how much you have carried on about money over that.

3: Why is your partner not posting? For 5 years all i see is you posting on his behalf?

4: Why are you saying in this thread
Kikki said
The advice will certainly be thought about, discussed with the husband, and taken on board.
 Is your partner actually reading these posts?

5: Why have you not taken on board what Agog said to you back in 2010 in relation to what you have to do for relocation, and for simply starting proceedings?

6: Why are you asking the same stuff all over again?

7: You seem to know (or think you know) an awful lot about both of the ex-partners, right down to bonus amounts and other really small details. Do you REALLY know all this, or are you just guessing?

8: In this thread you claim there has been no contact with the Mother in the US but, in your other posts you seem to indicate by stealth that there has been a line of communication open. Which one is it?

9: and final question. Does the Mother in the US have family in Australia? Has she been back to Australia since she got her job overseas? It is very unusual for people to be removed from their family for so long without a visit back home and if she has and you knew, what did you do to stop her leaving again at the time?

I had a good long chat with a senior mod on your posts last night and these questions I am asking you are perfectly valid ones as there seems to be a lot of different things going on going back 6 years now with none of them about angst at an overseas move.  thanks
 

Last edit: by The Wolf


Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Wolf - Hopefully, this makes it a little clearer. I wasn't meaning to "cherry-pick" which information I was sharing and which I wasn't. I was just trying to give the facts without getting into the "emotional side" of things. I hope I can answer all your questions.
The husband had two ex's. The first was an ex wife with whom he had two children with. He sees both children regularly. The ex wife tried to re-locate with the children and we DID actually go to a lawyer and seek advice and have orders set up preventing her from leaving because her move would've impacted his ability to see the children. Before that point, there were no orders in place. The ex wife didn't move.
The second ex was a short term relationship which lasted three months during which time she fell pregnant. When they found out about the pregnancy, the relationship had already broken down. However, the husband DID see the child. Not regularly, but I think I mentioned the ongoing hostility towards him from the ex in a previous post. The last time the husband saw the ex, the child was around 3 years old. It was at that point that the ex told the husband to stay away and "just pay CS".
To answer your questions…
  1. We didn't know ex no. 2 relocated until 2012. The passport application was signed in 2010 believing the mother was taking the child to see family she has overseas. It was not until the CS assessment came back with her earnings dropping substantially for that financial year that we started questioning why. CS had no records of her leaving the country. The husband tried contacting her (going to her house, calling her….etc. etc) and finally sent her an email asking if she and the child were still in the country. He was cut up that he wasn't consulted but, as I said before, he didn't believe he could do anything about it because he HAD signed the passport application back in 2010.
  2. I post on THIS forum for legal advice - whether that be CSA advice or relocation advice. Every single one of the posts you have read haven't mentioned how much we love the children because, in my opinion, that's what other support forums are for. To be honest, I'm really offended by your presumption that it's all about money and how hard done by we are. This is a family law web guide and that's what I come here for - legal advice and I try to keep the emotional side out of it. NOT because it's not there. I respect the advice of the members here because it's factual and it's informative - not emotional.
  3. I post because he is simply not the type to post on forums.
  4. He hasn't read them but I've definitely spoken to him about the views expressed and spoken about where we go from here. I meant what I said.
  5. We haven't "simply started proceedings" because the relocation has already taken place which leads me to your next question….
  6. I disagree that I'm asking the same stuff. In the first instance, the relocation hadn't taken place yet. We DID take  Agog's advice at the time. In this instance, the relocation has already taken place.
  7. No, I'm not just "guessing".
  8. There has been a line of communication via email which is stopped as soon as the mother doesn't like the question. For example, when first asked if she is still in the country with the child, the communication stopped for a period of time. Again, now that the husband is trying to negotiate with the mother, she has stopped all communication for almost 2 months.
  9. I can't answer that question I'm sorry. She DID have a small family here in Australia but I'm not sure if she has been back or if they have relocated.

Which all leads up back to. Why wont he sign the Passport form?  Given the circumstances of the relationship (3 months) the fact that Dad really didn't have anything to do with the Mother or the Child years ago. What possible reason could he have not to sign the form?

Personally I  see even less reason to not sign it with these new facts and even less chance of getting a court to do anything in relation to any kind of contact. 

Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Thank you again for your opinion Wolf.

Swambo - I agree that I wouldn't want it done to my child. But I think I would've done the right thing in the first place and had a conversation with the other legally responsible parent before I made the move in the first place. I have met the mother but I haven't met the child. Some of the advice and perspectives given here have been really helpful - I sincerely mean that. And it's something that the husband and I are discussing.
Kikki said
Thank you again for your opinion Wolf.
Do not mistake questions around admitted  facts as opinion.  But since you mention it, I'm going to go out on a limb here. Here IS an opinion.

1: My "guess" (and it is an educated one) Is that Mum in the USA, the one who stopped contact two months ago, has now realised they can do a simple form to the passport office and now has the passport .

 and

2: As a result of Hubby not signing the form, for a girl he basically does not know, she has stopped communicating with you totally, but will continue to take your money whilst never letting him have any kind of relationship with his daughter.

Id say id get good odds on a wager to that effect.

Was it really worth not signing? Sorry, i mean, can you ask your hubby if it was really worth not signing ;-)

 

Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Wolf - a little off topic but have you ever considered changing your name to "Pit Bull"?  :upsidedown:

I DO thank you for your opinions - both these last ones and your previous ones. But if we WERE to actually put a wager on what you said in your last points, I think I can almost confidently say you would lose. I say "almost" because I'm not always right.

And just a minor point - I did not at any stage mention the gender of the child so I'm not sure where or how "daugher" came into it?

It seems this has become more of a personal attack than advice. Maybe I'm wrong - I can appreciate that sometimes, written text can be misunderstood but in light of your responses and tone, with all due respect, I won't be engaging in this conversation with you any longer.
Kikki said
Wolf - a little off topic but have you ever considered changing your name to "Pit Bull"?  
I have considered changing it to "The guy who calls people out on what they write by asking very relevant questions as that is the one true way you can really help people in relation to cases and matters" But the username is too long.  It is only by doing this that people get the best possible outcomes in relation to their matters.

Please could you spell out EXACTLY what you want you happen with the BOY OR GIRL in the USA. Like, if there was a magic wand and tomorrow you had what you wanted. What would it be?

Could you then  spell out how the passport refusal is part of the plan to make this happen?

Cheerz


 

Last edit: by The Wolf


Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Kikki.  As I have said before.  You appear to be very supportive of your husband and have his best interests at heart.

However.   While I appreciate your advocacy of his interests, the only way readers of this forum can truly assist you in this matter is by you asking your husband to post his own version of events (not second hand details we are receiving) and for him to personally make known what he aims to achieve in relation to this child.   If he can do that then perhaps we can offer him some educated guidance.

As you know, these are HIS children, NOT yours!  While I do not speak for everyone here, it is my view that if your husband actually wanted assistance and/or options and possible legal pathways that he would (finally) takes the reigns.

I doubt he (you!) will receive much support or assistant in relation to this matter otherwise.

Also, you have not yet answered a very important question in terms of those options, being…in which Country or Countries does the mother have CITIZENSHIP/RESIDENCY??

While by no means implying your husbands circumstances even come close to it, this is very important in Hague Cases.

Last edit: by SWAMBO


Any opinions expressed herein are strictly for informational purposes and are never to be taken as legal advice.
Sorry Swambo. I must have missed the question - the mother is an Australian citizen.

I understand your point about my husband taking the reigns and that they are HIS children, not mine, but truly - he just isn't the type to get onto a forum and ask questions. We talk - I say "let me go and see what some experts say"… I write, go back to him and we discuss the advice. In previous posts which Wolf brought up, where I sought advice about his ex-wife moving with his children, I went back to him with the advice that was given and it was at that point that the reigns were passed over to him and he sought out a lawyer and initiated the proceedings to prevent that move from happening. I guess my point is that the reigns DO get handed over after I get the advice. I could encourage him more to get on here and start discussions himself but the chances of it actually happening would be next to zero.  :S
Kikki. I appreciate your explanation.

Just to be clear, when you say the mother is an Australian citizen, what you mean is she definitely does not have duel Citizenship?

Also I see we have 2 'main' scenarios here and would really appreciate if you could talk to your husband and confirm which he wants.

1. The child remains in the States (time undefined?) and he tries to initiate some form of relationship with his child via electronic means for now i.e. Skype et al which could possibly progress into something more down the track?

2. The passport is not signed and if the mother cannot have it extended, the child is forced to return to Australia and ?????  You will need to fill in the blanks for me as at present I have no idea what is expected with this on your husbands part?

Also, and please correct me if I am wrong. Given you do seem to know a lot about the mothers financial affairs (in spite of her being O/S or not in communications with your husband for some time) am I to assume the mother in an occupation e.g defence force/gov't which enables easier access to the public in terms of this information?



Any opinions expressed herein are strictly for informational purposes and are never to be taken as legal advice.
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