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A Request for your Help

I received the following email, and have been given permission from Sandra to post this request for your stories :-

Sandra Lee said
Now that minute is over and I'm on a serious mission, more determined than ever to spread the word and raise awareness of the rising epidemic we have on our hands.

It appears to be more of a disease that's spreading from house to house, city to city, country to country.

It has to stop.

Children are being literally ripped from the arms of their parent, by the other parent and are being assisted by the courts, the police, the CAS, doctors, lawyers and many, many others, as most of you are aware.

I want to raise the roof on these situations and scream from the bottom of my lungs about these injustices…and I plan on doing just that.

Within the next several months, I will be organizing a 'Rock Rally' if you will. I will be reaching out to all my support, friends, family, etc., and asking you to help me, to help us.

Right now I'm asking any of you that have a story to tell, please take the time to type it out and send it to me. I will be gathering as many stories as I can and putting them together in a book. This book will be presented at the event.
I, of course, will need your permission to do so;o)

No monies will be taken at this event either. This is strictly voluntary and is only to help get some attention out there on the horrible things that are happening to our children.

You'd be surprised, someone close to you right now probably has or is going through this.

They say it takes a village to raise the children. They say that for a reason. Let's show 'em what this village can do!

Thank you & PLEASE tell your friends about this, let everyone's voice be heard. Whether you're a Grandparent, sibling, cousin, we're all in this together.
Sandra Lee

Send your stories to:

sandralee@findingcore.com

In response to asking Sandra  "what are you looking for in this regard?", Sandra replied :-

Sandra Lee said
As for your story, that is all I ask for, long or short it doesn't matter. I just want all of the Fathers out there to be heard;o)
So far I have received quite the folder of sad tales. It makes for hard, heavy reading but in the end I hope what I'm doing makes some sort of a difference. It may be too late for Eric and I but 'hopefully' it can help someone else who needs it.
I plan on making this a HUGE as possible, maybe even spreading the 'Rock Rally' from country to country…
I have access to media and the like and I plan on using it to my full advantage!!

Please remember that it may be unwise to include real names that can identify people.


Last edit: by MikeT

Sandra Lee should well contact the American Rock Group Madman and Dreamers. Search in the news area on "Rock" will find results

See news items:


Yanks support "Give broken Children a Hope for their future" - Media Conference 9/11
07 November, 2007, 08:58 PM

NEWS Release from New York City, USA
03 September, 2007, 06:08 PM



Solidarity of International Artists & Thinkers in Campaign for Children's Rights - Press release SPCA
22 January, 2007, 12:49 AM

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
Sandra Lee said
As for your story, that is all I ask for, long or short it doesn't matter. I just want all of the Fathers out there to be heard;o)

 
Is Sandra taking stories from Mums as well?

I personally know of three Mums who are without their children today on Mother's Day because they and their children have suffered exactly the type of situation that happens to far too many Dads and their children, in one case because of papers she was tricked into signing the day her own mother died and in another because of papers handed to her to sign within a week of giving birth to a stillborn child. Despite the circumstance under which these women signed, neither was able to undo the damage.



Secretary_SPCA, I have forwarded the address of this topic to Sandra, so I guess that she'll see that she'd be thankful for the help you've given.
Many thanks to you Mike for helping to spread the word, as well as yourself Secretary_SPCA for the contact information.
This is gaining more speed than I expected! I already have a few stories and it's only the beginning.
I have shared the terrible statistics in Australia with my friends here and they are stunned.
Obviously this had started out as a personal venture for us (my finance and I) as his rights have been taken from him but the more and more I research and read, the more determined I am to make this a huge as possible.
I am the Manager of a band and have media access at my finger tips..why not use it for good? And I plan on doing just that!!

Katie: So sorry but I am putting my full focus on children and their Father's for this event as clearly, in Canada, as well as Australia (and every other country you can think of) men have no rights.
There are many, many woman's groups out there that would surely help the women and children you are speaking of.
Sandra, I have no problem with what you are doing, but can I just comment on one small part;
If you have a look at the Australian Family Law Act you will see neither the Mothers or the Fathers have any rights.
You might get people off side with such sweeping generalisations and not help your cause. You may be better received if you steer clear of the victim mentality and focus on providing emotional support and practical advice, (like we do on the FLWG). Don't know if you have an equivelent site in Canada, but it might be a good thing to get going.
Good Luck.
So sorry again.
I am not schooled on the Australian Family Law Act, I made an assumption from the some of the things I read in the above links. (IE: Currently, 3 fathers a day kill themselves in Australia because they can't stand the pain of being unjustifiably wrenched out of the lives of their children.)
I honestly did not mean to offend anyone, come off with a victims mentality or make sweeping generalizations, but I guess I did just that.
Trust me when I say this will not happen again.
Thank you for your advice Testing-one-two.
T12,
      I'm a little confused at your comment about rights, Sandra is clearly focusing on the issues that surround men and all that she has said is that men have no rights, which is true and is relevant to her issues, perhaps it could even be said, with regard to this topic, that women's issues are off topic. She is doing little different than say for example, Breast Screening, which is not for men even though some men do get breast cancer. What I think Sandra sees is that as there are no rights for men, which thus allows other factors to bias the system against men and her wish is to correct this bias and see that men are treated fairly and that children do not needlessly suffer, not because of the lack of rights but because of the bias, although if men had rights that didn't allow that bias then there would be no or less bias. I doubt that Sandra would, especially being a woman, advocate for rights that then brought about bias against women. So I see that Sandra would actually also be advocating for rights for women, just implicitly.

Katie,
        why would Sandra include Mums on a book that is about the issues surrounding what men go through? I'd also like you to explain why you did not include any knowledge of father's not having their children on Father's day as I see it rather hypocritical that you pick an issue and respond in a similar way just the gender reversed. I also see a pattern arising that you only appear to pick this up when it's females losing out.
Mike, being a male who has been through the court, CSA etc, I understand her angle. My comment was an isolated one, that is, if the catch cry is "men have no rights" she will be easily dismissed and the message may be lost because it will soon be pointed out that according to law women have no rights either. Perhaps the approach that "courts are unfairly biased against men" or similar may be harder to dismiss because then it is only an opinion that can be supported with anecdotal evidence  rather than a statement of fact that can be easliy rebutted.
T12, thanks that explains things much better, hopefully Sandra will be all the wiser and see what you have said as assistance.
Interesting to note that victim mentality has flourished for some but denied (quite rightly) for others.

Its not so much the victim stuff - its the plain disbelief people have when you relate what happened.  The way you are treated during the process, the dumb looks people give you and the the idea that  - if what your are telling them is tru - then you must have deserved it.  One telling comment to me from Gary Humphries was - "well you married her' - a bit like the idea that - well you had sex with her etc etc.

All used to justify the nonsense, abuse a, financial, social and legal ruin the system visits on you - with no-one responsible.
Expectations are not the legal system . Men are expected to provide, put up , shut up, accept , not get 'angry' (violent killers we all 'know' them to be). Any vehement response is seen as violence or irrational. Any criticism is seen as 'sexist' or women hating.

Look at suicides. look at the children, look how well single mothers are treated (go forth create and be supported) - then look at men on the streets, with no income for 20 years - bearing the brunt of raising one or more families.

People simply do not believe the stories.
People do not believe that men face an uphill legal battle which can kill them - women by default - get the lot. They don't have to prove anything. They are the 'innocents' - the nurturers - the sacrificers - the ones we need to look after.

- half the assets not enough- how about 70% + 20 years of CSA taking the money from him for you? Any else we can do for you?

Cant talk too openly less the feminists and others bombard this site with their hate mail.

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
Jon Pearson said
Interesting to note that victim mentality has flourished for some but denied (quite rightly) for others.


 women by default - get the lot. They don't have to prove anything. They are the 'innocents' - the nurturers - the sacrificers - the ones we need to look after.

- half the assets not enough- how about 70% + 20 years of CSA taking the money from him for you? Any else we can do for you?

Cant talk too openly less the feminists and others bombard this site with their hate mail.
  Jon,

With stuff like this YOU are wallowing in the victim mire. Dumbing down the argument like this will not elicit hate mail from feminists, they (like most who encourage reasonable debate on these important issues) won't need to repond. It is a self parody. For example…

"Women get the lot." Do they? Thats interesting. Clearly I need to go back and re-read all those law reports to find the 0/100% property split cases I missed.

"Don't have to prove anything" . Oh really?? Tell me more. I didn't realise only the men file affidavits and are cross examined?

" how about 70%"  I thought you said they get the lot?  Now I'm really confused.

" 20 years of CSA taking the money from him for you" I though CS was money paid by the parent of a child to help provide for their welfare? I didn't realise it was really stealing money from the men to give to the women.

Clearly I have so much more to learn.
Testing-one-two

How delightful to read that I am not the only one who believes 'that' particular poster has a victim mentality and very anti female bias and often posts contradictory rubbish.
Again conan plays the man not the issues - what a surprise :lol:

In terms of treatment of men through the system - those who have been through it and dealt with others have valid experiences to draw on - as I do. Systematic mistreatment of men in favour of women is well in-grained in this society - its part of our culture.
  1. 2020 - no mens groups
  2. immigration - detain men not women and children
  3. Domestic violence treatment
  4. government handouts and special payments
  5. legal support for family court and other matters

CSA is paid to women mainly (overwhelmingly) - women legally don't have to work if they have children - nor until recently was their any idea that they should. In fact womens lobby groups have got the discrimination commissioner to lobby government to pay women a wage for being at home (its all about the families).

Happy to take on any rational argument with a feminist - offer is still out there. The Paul McCartney topic illustrates their interest in that matter. I agree - the victim mentality must be removed from debate.

People can choose to be victims if they want but its not my bag nor is it female bashing or hating. If anything the response from you two illustrates exactly why mens issues are ignored and deep systemic discrimination flourishes. You dont seem to have any insight or experience into any discrimination or system problems associated with men. Well lucky you and congratulations. I think you have done well.

Conan - good to see you feel validated.

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
Okay…thank you Mike! And T12 I understand your point and appreciate it, thank you as well.

Let me start off by saying I did not mean to cause any controversy here in this forum.

As far as a victims mentality, I certainly did not mean to come across with one, as I feel I do not have one.
I do, however, know the/our children are the victims and have witnessed, first hand, many a child taken from their Father maliciously, vindictively, and systematically by their Mothers and the 'system'.

It is very hard for me not to feel for myself, as I have lost 4 beautiful children who were in my life, whom I fought for, over a course of 4 years.
It is extremely hard for me not to feel for my better half, Eric, who has lost 4 beautiful children who were in his life from the moment they were born, whom he fought for, over a course of 4 years.

I am a Mother of 4, a Step Mother of 4, a Grandmother of 2 and an Auntie to numerous children, most of whom are not related to me but by love.

I have personally been through the gambit with custody, support and the likes. I see how our (in Ontario) court system favours woman. That is an unfortunate fact.

I could have easily taken advantage of that and chose to keep our children all to myself, instead I know the importance of both parents being in their lives and the benefit it is to all of us. I share joint custody, 50% all the way, with their Father.

I am in no way shying away from Mothers and their issues. I run a Non Profit organization that is here for everyone's advantage, for any reason, whether you be a child, Mother, Father, Aunt, Uncle, Sister, Brother, etc. It's for families in their time of need.
If a Mother approached me, for the same reason, I would be there wholeheartedly to help her in any way I could. I absolutely do not discriminate by age, race, gender, etc…never have, never will.

For this event I am planning, it focuses fully on the children and their Fathers.

The event I am right in the middle of now, is to raise awareness for families who cannot have children.

I hope everyone can understand where I am coming from and I stand firmly in all my beliefs, I believe in our children. They are our future.
As a human being, as a Mother, it's in my nature.
i attended dads in distress, a non profit organisation to help in the prevention of suicide in men, i learnt that it is 5 men a day that commit suicide?

Jon Pearson said
Again conan plays the man not the issues - what a surprise :lol:
Jon you play the whole team by trying to inflame the men vs women issues. When you say in other posts that you are out of synch, could it be the way you present your ideas along gender lines rather than the issues?

Jon Pearson said
People can choose to be victims if they want but its not my bag nor is it female bashing or hating.
So your previous posts are all fair minded, balanced and do not discriminate? I suggest you read them.
Jon Pearson said
If anything the response from you two illustrates exactly why mens issues are ignored and deep systemic discrimination flourishes. You dont seem to have any insight or experience into any discrimination or system problems associated with men. Well lucky you and congratulations. I think you have done well.

Men's issues are not ignored it is the divide that separates people that do and people that just talk that stops issues going to the right areas. You can rant and rave all you want but at the end of the day it is just hot air. For changes to be made those issues have to go to the people that make the decisions. There should always be a limit to discussion when it turns into some form of action rather than an endless repetitive loop talk. You are very typical of many that just want to whine and when challenged raise some meaningless argument that the people that disagree must be feminist sympathizers, that is going from victim mentality to paranoia and not accepting that others peoples views may be better informed or more carefully thought through.


If you believe in our children you will then accept that women are hurting just as much as men. Women just have more of a support network but thier kids are alienated against them as well and it is happening more and more.
I did not intend for this to turn into some kind of…I don't even know what to call it…

I'm only asking for your stories, if you have one, please send it to me, that's all I am asking.

I will no longer be returning to this forum for obvious reasons.

Again I thank you Mike for trying to help and sorry if what you have done for me, for the children, for the Fathers, has caused you any grief.
if mens issues are not ignored then why the new rape laws? - why the new domestic violence laws? conan you need to take a good look around you and recognise why jon is posting in this manner. lets work together and make it happen!

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