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lost objection

CS declined the objection of reason 9 . So now to the SSAT appeal.

CS say that i am and should be working to support our 4 kids so hubby income goes to the other 2 girls.

In the SSAT forms section E it asks for other earners income in the houehold. I dont earn an income so do we have to add my family money ? Any advice on how to do this SSAT appeal , this is our only hope . We only want it reduced some to be able to live and pay our bills as now they have garnished hubbys pay my family money is paying all the house expenses as we dont have anything but 20 bucks left with hubbys pay until my family payment the week after.
I assume Family Money is the FTB. So you perhaps say that you, due to your caring duties do not earn anything, but that the family receives family tax benefit and that you receive the carer's allowance for the caring duties you perform.

However let's see if others have input into what you should say as if they are asking for earnings you would not be correct to simply say $0 as the carer's allowance and family tax benefit are not earnings.
acep74 -

What were you trying to achieve under reason 9?

What is the age of your 4 children? and is your hubby their father?

                acep74's 4 children are all children (as are the two other CS children) of the father.

Basically Acep74 has two grounds for reason 9, costs for the special needs of the children (2 have special needs) and due to the caring duties, as evidenced by receipt of the carer's allowance, that the father has a duty to support his wife.  Two of the 4 children are under school age, the other two are still under 13 (if I recall correctly ages are 9,7,5 and 4), the elder two have special needs.
Mike - Which 2 children have the special needs and what are the needs?

One thing I know is that 1, let alone 4, dependents would not reduce the CS liability a great deal.
                the eldest two have special needs (although I'm not too sure of the needs, although I know speech therapy for one is involved). It's not that the relevant dependent child amount isn't being considered. It's a) the cost of the special needs (e.g. speech therapy sessions (it appears that for costs of $10,000 that CS is being reduced by an annual amount of about $400) and b) a reduction based upon the duty to support the wife. From what I've seen the CSO has plucked a figure from the sky ($1000 per annum) and reduced the adjusted taxable income by that amount.

Personally I beleve that a) is for the cost of the children and it is an amount that must be paid for the special needs and should therefore be applied as an additional cost of the RDC children thus the RDC child should in my opinion be increased by $10,000  (although perhaps the carer's allowance should be factored in) which equates to an increase of $5000 (this can be reflected in the calculators by applying it as a decrease to the ATI.

I have no idea what b) should be but would put the argument forward that it should be the self support amount, which is currently $18808 and should be applied by adding it to the self support amount (perhaps the carer's allowance could be applied here).

There is also the fact that the other CS parent fraudulently claimed she was earning less than she actually was, the CSO rather than applying the true and established income resorted to the older fraudulently provided income. Although I do believe that this has now been corrected after objection.

Given the circumstances, I can't see how C$A could expect her to go to work. Looking after a 4 and 5 year old who are not in full time or compulsory schooling, let alone the special need of the older children, would make it hard to work and then it would would have to be highly paid work to make it viable for her to utilise child care services.

Regarding the comment in your second last paragraph I have something in the pipeline that may shed some light on this.

What do we know about her hubby's situation?

What level of care does he have and does he have shared parental responsibility?

Hi Happy Daze
My hubby has no contact with the kids due the ex wife being very bitter, there is a court order from 10 yrs ago still current but no access we know nothing of their welfare , zilch.
We can not afford to go to court to fight no access.
Hubby is in the defence force and will be away a lot in the coming months.
I am currently filling out the SSAT forms .
                Hubby's situation is currently no care (very dynamic situation leading up to this, the two CS children one 16 the other 14 I think, flit here there and everywhere), court orders exist (not sure about shared responsibility), one CS child was with the father and agreement then was no CS paid but then she left to go to a third party who claimed CS but has now gone back to mother in addition to this CSA are grabbing arrears for wrongfully assessing the lives with third party situation (not sure if those arrears are based upon the incorrect income from the mother) . All my assumptions/calculations have been based upon 0 care for both daughters. Hopefully Acep74 will fill in the missing stuff  and correct anything that I've said that is wrong (e.g. do the court orders mention shared responsibility or anything about responsibility).

I think what the CSO has grabbed is that the mother goes along to the school to assist with the two special needs children and to also learn better how to assist further at home and considers that time should be spent working. I think words along the lines of "You haven't provided proof that you are unable to work" is the reason.

court order

the order states for the day to day care to the mother , she is responsible to share any welfare or issues to the father.

And joint resposibility was to occur.

Half school hoildays , phone calls twice a week for an hour .

The mother was to provide schools , doctors with the father's address to contacted if anyhting happened. And to provide school photos every year.

None of this has occured .

We finally got a copy of the order as we misplaced the orignal and sent it to the school ,( as they have never been given the order)  a few days later had a letter stating the older daughter 16 is already cutting school again .
That's not a very good situation for his kids. If he was to reinstate half of school holidays and every other weekend care with his kids, then he would have over 52 nights which would reduce his CS liability.

Being in the armed forces should provided him with a range of opportunities to manage his income to maximise FTB, minimise tax and CS.

Has he explored all these options?

letters of declinement

 we got the letters stating why cs have declined the objections , basically they say we have not enough proof , they are  very much attacking me throught this report

When we used the law act section 72 they have come back with a case Gyselman and Gyselman 1992 FLC 92-279 .. i tried to find this but haven't as yet. What are they trying to say ?

I got a lteer from my GP saying that I am required to be at home at this time with the children to benefit my children and to support the extra attention my specail needs children have . Hopefully the SSAT will except this ?
I had a quick look at "the guide" on the CSA website and the case Gyselman and Gyselman (1992) FLC 92-279
seem to deal with defining the meaning of special circumstances. 

The phrase 'special circumstances of the case' is not defined in the Assessment Act. The Family Court has held that 'it is intended to emphasis that the facts of the case must establish something which is special or out of the ordinary' (Gyselman and Gyselman (1992) FLC 92-279).

Perhaps they don't belive you meet the threshold of a special circumstances.  
As I believe it Gyselman and Gyselman 1992 FLC 92-279 was a ruling that expanded upon "special circumstances". The CSA guide says
"The Family Court has held that 'it is intended to emphasise that the facts of the case must establish something which is special or out of the ordinary'"

I think you could interpret a refusal based upon this, as that the CSA do not consider the special needs of your children as something special or out of the ordinary, even though probably every other government department and person in Australia would.

I've tried doing a search on Austlii  but I can't find Gysleman and Gysleman even though there's plenty of references to it. Perhaps some kid person could explain how it can be found (if it exists).
found it on google , with the year number and the quote 92-279 and their name.

Remeber when i first came on stating the error with the 3rd party when the SCO made the 2 assessments separate so when she did this established what hubby would have left in one assessment but did not add it to the other assessment in the expenditure ?
Well in the reports today on our we objected this error they have not at all answered the question . Can we use this in the SSAT appeal ?
Acep74, SSAT might well say that there is no decision so they can't act. If you have objected and the CSA have not made and or have not communicated a decision then they are in the wrong according to the guide and the underlying legislation, they are also wrong according to the APS guidelines and legislation. Object again saying that their decision is incomplete. You may also wish to formally complain.
its like being on a merry go round mike.... :dry:
Acep74 - I believe you have special circumstances such as children with special needs, husband working away for long periods of time, no care of children despite orders in place.

Special Circumstances is only one criteria of a few that need to be satisfied for them to make a change in your favour.

Try the SSAT but if you see my recent decision from the AAT, they are not to be relied upon for a decent decision. I think you will need to end up in the FMC.

I also think that your husband needs to do something about the care issue. Do the court orders give him more than 52 night care per year?

no it came to 42 days the order was made in 1999.
the ex has never complied with any of it.
But what she has said to the kids they wont come anyway. 16 and 14 yrd old they are now. And after what the 16 yr old has put us through i dont think i could have her near my children again, they are all very hurt and confused .
Well it looks like you are stuck with the current assessment if your hubby cannot get at least past 52 nights care as he really has no care of the kids.

He would be treated as a deadbeat dad who does not care about his kids. I know this is probably not true but that is how the C$A will see him.

I feel sorry for the position he is in - having to deal with the general conflict from the ex and then the conflict generated from having a second family.

As I said before he has access to a number of benefits being in the armed forces. I hope you are making the most of them.
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