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When seeking orders by consent or otherwise

I am in the process of trying to work out what I want included in my orders. My main question is this, do I ask for what I can deliver now, in terms of care or contact? or do ask for more time that what I feel I can provide for?

I am asking because what I ask for in my consent orders, is most likely what I will ask for in court. I do not want to get to the court and ask for 50/50 as I feel that I can not deliver the care. On the other hand I feel that I can deliver care on the 3 nights out of 14 that I am thinking of asking for. Any constructive feedback will be much apreciated.

When I needed :( help Dads In Distress was there for me:thumbs:.

Now I am there as a facilitator for other Dads In Distress.

Ambit Claims re Level of Care

When setting out inititial proposals on children's matters, it is reasonable to ask for a little more that you really want. This allows the opportunity to negotiate toward a "middle" ground. It is also usefull to sepparate (in your own mind) issues into different levels of priority. Isues which represent a low priority can used as consessions to achieve high priority matters.

When it comes time to lodge the your application in court, it is wise to only ask for what you can realisticly manage. There always remains the chance that a Judge or magistrate will grant exactly what you ask. It would then appear very foolish to reply "I am sorry your honour, but I cant get the time off work". It is also imperitive to discuss your work circumstances with your employer. Many are willing to allow some flexibility 1 or 2 days to accomodate special needs.

Where the situation arrises that you would like more involvent with the children, but reality requires that changes need to made in your current circumstance to manage your desires, the appropriate strategty is to insert a review clause in the orders. Generally this is a clause proposing mediation to review the orders, with a set time table.

For me - Shared Parenting is a Reality - Maybe it can be for you too!
ajac said
I am asking because what I ask for in my consent orders, is most likely what I will ask for in court. I do not want to get to the court and ask for 50/50 as I feel that I can not deliver the care. On the other hand I feel that I can deliver care on the 3 nights out of 14 that I am thinking of asking for.
I assume you do not have Interim Orders. I would at least be seeking the three nights Friday through Sunday on the alternate weeks as quickly as possible after separation. Any more will depend on yr employer, yr work schedule, the age of the children and your new if any relationship that may be able to give you some support when the children are coming in from school. Do not ask for 7 nights and say you can do 3 after you get the orders. Be realsitic but also be mindfull it is EXTREMELY difficult going back to get them changed (If the parties do not agree). Ensure you have an order that says the orders can be varied by eaither party agreeing in writing. You may find you have a cooperative mum who might be happy to swaps out some days or give you additional time because your parents are helping out for a week or two.

One thing is certain we have looked at setting out a large raft of draft orders before and there is complexity in making these vast lists of possible orders available because they do not fit appropriately for your circumstances. The standard areas for consideration have to be contact arrangements (Lives with and spends time with) Holidays (The school the child attends NOT gazzetted school holidays) , birthdays, mothers day and fathers day, Christmas, Childrens birthdays, Medical and dental situations, who picks up and drops off and where (Can yr new girlfriend pick up from school or grandpaerents) what about religous upbringing although that is now part of the rebuttable presumption of shared parental responsibility that you need to ensure is stated that you have it as order 1. Make sure you are included in all school matters and able to attend all events. You need to be on the school documents as the second contact parent.

It may be prefereable to list all these matters out on paper and in writing and try and reach agreement before going to court and through mediation etc. I assume you have explored these areas. Court will eat into your leave and if you are self represented there will be numerous appearances until you get to final orders. Sometimes the solicitors will facilitate conflict resolution and pre court mediation and act as a facilitator. See the posts on what you must do under family law.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
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Hi guys, just a quick update on my situation.

Got interim orders on the 23/8/7 that states some of the following:

Equal and shared long term care for the children, contact on the 25/8 from AM till PM, and then on 2/9 and every 2ND Sunday thereafter from AM till PM.

I had the contact on the 25/8, then some new allegations thrown my way by her lawyer during the following week on the phone but nothing in writing. Her lawyer said something using their right of reply with in 7 days to oppose the orders. Nothing has been lodged with the FMC according to the court file. No attempt from the order side to facilitate contact as per the orders, on the 2/9. Worst part is that I have to wait for the court to send out the orders before I can file a contravention of the orders.

Also found out last night that the police are trying to serve me with a summons to appear in court on the 12/9 for an AVO mention. Don't have all the details as I have not yet been served with the summons. will advise when i have full details.

When I needed :( help Dads In Distress was there for me:thumbs:.

Now I am there as a facilitator for other Dads In Distress.

So called 7 day right of reply

The clause you refer to probably says something like is at liberty to have the matter relisted on 7 days notice, or words to that effect.

That applies to both parties.

It is probably the time to be proactive - prepare and file urgently for a new interim as well as the contravention, I suspect would be the way to go.

For me - Shared Parenting is a Reality - Maybe it can be for you too!
The AVO is on the grounds that, I may take the kids out of Australia.

This is not likely since I do not have a current passport and, as far as I know, the kids don't either.

The police are seeking a condition that I do not contact her at all. To me this seems that it interferes with the order for the shared and equal responsibility for the long term care of the children. Funny enough this part of the order was left out of the info given to the police. Hopefully I can have this dismissed with out too much trouble.

When I needed :( help Dads In Distress was there for me:thumbs:.

Now I am there as a facilitator for other Dads In Distress.

You have to wonder what on earth goes through the minds of some of these ex partners  :devil: who obviously have the children's interest at heart  :wub:  and or what sort of mental post natal depression  :offtopic: they are in to simply devote their whole life existence to ensuring the "dad" does not get any contact and to enacting a rage of revenge for all the perceived ills of a failed relationship.

I think I saw the Secretary Shared Parenting Council in one of the posts say something like "lower than a snakes belly" at one stage in reference to another most unfortunate goings on… Perhaps he is more all seeing than most.  O_o

Site Director
Ajac, how did you go with your AVO (Apprehended Violence Order) defence?

Hope you got it quashed or it will be like a noose around your neck.

Did you remember an Australian passport application requires both parents signatures?

My observations of false claim to fear of relocation, whether within Australia or Overseas, is it is the person making the false claim of your intention who is intending the relocation to alienate the other parent by distance but could simply be a stance for position, position, possession in the Court.  

An AVO, DVO or IO (Intervention Order) are orders demonstrating violence by the fact such an Order has been made.

The purpose and evidence for the Order is not required for a FM or Judge to claim the AVO, DVO or IO demonstrates you have behaved in a violent fashion so the mother is in fear.

A normal tactic by solicitors to invoke the violence exceptions to the Law by claiming the fact an AVO, DVO or IO has been made proves your violence.

I made the mistake of agreeing to such an Order on revised distance, as I had no need or wish to have contact with my Ex, only the Children. FamCA Orders granted the child contact, but in the FamCA the Judge claimed the IO proved I had been violent, and was not interested in the evidence of the hearing of the IO or the reason the IO was made,  only the fact an IO was made, so there must have been proper evidence I had been violent. This is my personal experience and knowledge of the effect and use of AVOs, DVOs and IOs in the FM and Family Court arenas.

If your AVO was made I would suggest you get the transcript, which will be unobtainable after 3 to 6 months. Have it transcribed and available for any Court hearings to quash any AVO that might have been made or you will be tarred literally as a violent person on the fact an AVO has been made rather than the true reasons for the AVO.

Hope you had a Merry Xmas and Happy New.

"Parents Room, Fathers Welcome"

You have to wonder what on earth goes through the minds of some of these ex partners
Reading other, more general, fathers' and men's forums provides an insight into what so frequently goes through the minds of such parents. It is the abusive trash from another parent who "knows it all", been there done that. I'm sure that this network that advocates such things is also evident at many a playground and school. It is also propagated frequently through the media, directly and indirectly, especially certain magazines.

My favourite quote from the local mall:
"Parents Room, Fathers Welcome".
Sums it up very much!

Basically these minds are given expectations and most of us are driven by expectations. Perhaps also one of the major driving factors why so many parents on the other end seem to be so apathetic.

Two thoughts, totally off topic.

1. My partner is always extremely delighted to see a baby change table in the men's. Something I've always taken for granted.

2. What goes through the ex's head. I'm convinced that there is a small minority (but destructive nonetheless) that are convinced that the more evil they act, the more likely the dad will just walk away. And it works occaisionally. I worked with 2 guys - great guys, lovely men - who both made the decision to walk away and pray their kids got to know them later on. I hate to say I judged them somewhat. Now my partner walks in their shoes, I really understand. It's a bloody slog.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Artemis, what State are you in? I'm in Victoria and don't remember seeing a change table in any men's room, but the babies change rooms are for men and woman.

Fathers have a different purpose or role, usually and at nature, to that of a mother hence the concept of men are from Mars and woman from Venus argument. An example of woman trying to take over the role of fathers on the pretence of a woman's happiness is the sole requirement for the child to be happy. To effect this a few woman need to remove the father from the FAMILY so they can be happy, therefore the child will be happy. This is done by these few woman by the use of AVOs, DVOs, and IOs - the name depending on the State of the Order.

Something I was made aware of years ago is how often derogatory advertising of men is financially rewarding to the advertiser. This is because woman spend more money in the market place than men, woman are more susceptible to advertising than men because more woman listen to and watch advertising than men. This is on the broad topic of this topic, that is the woman's and solicitors use of false concepts to prove a point whether it be an AVOs, DVOs, and IOs, or the subtle and less than subtle messages of advertising to be derogatory of a father and their role, duty and importance in the family unit.

Only when the individuals issues are exceptional to the general problem of false appearance created by AVOs, DVOs, and IOs.
Why is this old thread of interest to NJ, from the dates it is easy to surmise that the AVO action would be long gone by now? or another chance to go off topic again?
No-Justice said
Artemis, what State are you in?
Just 'mouse over' the user name and click on it  - reveals the posters details.

Says so in site enhancements but as I said before  -perhaps reads but does not understand, instead of calling me derogatory you should have called me 'derogatory and ACCURATE'.
Hi Guys - merry thingy.

It seems ajac  (the start of this thread) represents a portion of the male population  who have some problems with being able to put himself in a position of shared care. Whether this is the employer of his expectations of himself - it's difficult to tell.

It seems much easier for females to adopt a full time or shared care mode - is this because of the financial rewards for doing so?

It's more than baby change rooms - maybe men should be PAID for being full time or shared care parents - to make up for the loss to their careers

(Sounds a bit like a something we have heard before- good for the goose - why not the gander - Pru Goward would support it - wouldn't she?)

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
John Pearson said
Whether this is the employer of his expectations of himself - its difficult to tell.
Jon, I believe that my point above about expectations may also come into play. I guess that many a father may not have an expectation of being able to commit to shared care, may not even consider asking their employer, because of the expectations they have being influenced by views external to the situation. Such as that extra time off may not be an option simply because it's not generally considered the male thing to look after children. That's why I find the "Father's Welcome" offensive.

Personally I think I'm lucky in that I didn't go to my employer first. Instead I took what I got and I now use the fact that I would be in contravention of court orders to ensure that my work commitments don't affect the access that I have. As I have half the school holidays (approx 6 weeks), I get what is termed as personal leave to make up for the difference between my holiday entitlements and the holidays I need. I get the holidays when I need them (school holidays normally being the harder to get holidays). I have been able to insist that I am never on call when I have access, which really messes up the generation of the on-call rota.

I, like many others, have ended up with my child a great distance away, making shared care virtually impossible. This occurred primarily because at the time, I believed that I had no means of stopping the mother moving my child away. If I had not been influenced by these external views that drove my expectations, I could well have shared care now.

You would not be in 'contravention' of the orders.

See Judgments of Interest and other topics where this issue has been covered.

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
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