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Topic #2059 (no title)

just runnig by these orders for you thoughts

There are some fairly standard, well worded "canned" orders that will achieve what you are wanting.

Orders are typically unemotional and the 2 orders you ask for feedback are negative and pass judgement on the mother. In fact, with "Shared Parental Responsibility" a presumption, you are entitled to take the child to whatever activities you wish to, during your time. You should seek agreement and consult the mother before you enroll the child, of course. Unfortunately, I do not think you would get orders made that prevent her from whinging about the type of activities you take your child to.

I suggest the following:

(1) Neither parent shall discuss these proceedings, nor denigrate the other parent, to or in front of the child or their siblings, nor cause or allow anybody else to do so.
(2) The mother and the mother's family will refer to the father, in the child's presence, as "dad" or "daddy"
(3) Neither parent shall physically discipline R, nor cause anybody else to do so.
(4) Each parent will notify the other parent of any medical issues, illnesses, appointments and/or emergencies relating to R while he is in the other parent's care, as soon as is reasonably practicable.

I'm sure others will have some even better suggestions.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
monster said
i think specifc orders should be put in place because the mother has problems with these exact things, you cannot go to court on the basis of pyscological damage or hostile parenting, but if she breaks orders you can go to court if you get my drift!!
i dont see the probelm with having more then standards orders, this would set about to fix a very specific issue we are having… and this would only be for an interim so it would strongly establish a set of behavoiurs for he mother that she would would have to follow, or prove she could follow

The chances of a Court giving you some of those orders varies between '0.1%' and 'Buckleys'

You are alluding to Contraventions, 'Reasonable' excuse can also include not complying with an order that is not reasonable.

Please do not even think about using the term HAP in a Courtroom. You might notice it is not mentioned on this site - for very good reason. It is not recognised by the Courts!

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 

I hear you - I'm trying to help you

Ok, Monster, I hear you. Our ex is a HAP parent too.

What I'm trying to tell you is how to approach the court so that you will get the result you want.
There are ways to say things to get what you want.

While this may look like "English" the court has it's own language and way of doing things.
If you are in a "Less Adversarial Trial" Setting, you can sit down with the magistrate and say
"Look, the Mother's doing this and I don't want that to happen" and you can be informal and say exactly
what you mean. But I don't think this is the situation you're in.

In other words, you can't just say what you want. Orders are suggestions to the judge that you are recommending he/she will make.
They will usually apply to both parents. You might want specific orders. You are unlikely to get them.
You can't get orders telling people how to behave, they have to relate back to legislation.

 i dont see the probelm with having more then standards orders

I hope I've explained that above.

there is no point if you say the mother wokring against the father but its not really an issue becasue its not an order

This is not really true. Family law legislation lays down some basic concepts about how parents are mean to act.
There are laws about "Shared Parental Responsibility" and to live up to this, there are things that a parent is supposed to do.

iknow they have a good will cause as standard but if somone is doing HAP there is no good will

Your role as a self-represented litigant is to show evidence to the court of where the mother is not carrying out her obligations.
Then it is the courts role to make orders, based on the evidence you can produce. You do not do this by asking for orders that
imply mum has been difficult or rude.

 :cool:

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Sorry, I have used HAP - but it doesn't exist in court. Get used to saying "entrenched attitudes" or "the mother is aligning the child to her" or keep it simple and say "the mother says negative things about me and some of the activities I want to do with the child".

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Yes, you can ask for orders that "stop the mum from doing these things" but you have to ask for them in a way that the court will accept them.

If you don't, you will look foolish.

That's why it's really important to read and learn from this site. My partner and I made a lot of mistakes, early on in our approach to court. This site really helped.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
monster you would do well to heed any suggestions made by people with a tin badge as they have helped hundreds if not thousands of SRL's.

Putting my other hat on, I really hope you get someone to proof read your material because if is anything like your posts 'the' Court will not be happy with your Application or Affidavits.
ive gotta laugh at your message, judges dont like having thier time and other peoples money wasted by fancy lawyers who make mistakes.

i know from any time weve been to court you have to have your t's crossed and your i dotted every from and aplication has to be filled and filed properly. as for spell checking thats my mum

what im trying to say about my lawyer is that she seems to have very limited ability act on our case because of the time crunch she under she didnt understand from the very beginnig that the mother was incredably aggrieved and out to get the father, so she may of mishandled the case. we did try and tell her but she said forget about the past, when it seemed that the mothers behavoiur was predictive.

Last edit: by monster


Rarghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Han Solo routine "We're all fine here, thanks. How are you?" *weapons fire* "It was a boring conversation anyway!"
monster said
i know from any time weve been to court you have to have your t's crossed and your i dotted every from and aplication has to be filled and filed properly. as for spell checking thats my mum

Perhaps you can get her to spell and grammar check your posts on this site?

Type it in word, make changes, paste in - not hard stuff.

Solicitors do best when you give them clear, concise information to work with. You don't do that on this site, I doubt you do that with your Solly. Really think about what you want from seeing your Solly, take notes and go with dot points about what you want to achieve.

The case will probably not "turn" on the mother's actions, but evidence of her behaviour will. Perhaps you are not giving your solicitor any evidence.

He said - she said stuff is not enough.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Part of joining the SRLs is submitting a case summary. This is posted to the private area of the site and is only on the exec area - other SRLs do not even see it. So there is no need to "spill your guts".

Focus on telling your solicitor what you want to acheive. When you get orders, the only question should be - "what does this mean" and have them translate for you, into the reality.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Monster, that edit of the post post is a great improvement. Thankyou.

Part Orders - Part Parenting

Hi Monster

The proposed Orders you posted would not be very well received by a Court. I suspect "any" orders would not be weel received by the child's mother in your case.

The canned "Don't denigrate the other parent" oders are fine. The last 2 move into an area that is best managed by your Parenting Ability. A court would not make an order that one parent is not to tell the child that the othe parent organises is bad. Not enforcable.

It is not uncommon for a child to begin to believe an activity the other parent organised is not ok. The best way to overcome this is to help the child overcome their fear of the activity - I have had many similar experiences. In one case it was swimming. I took jnr swimming, he loved it, then suddenly he was frightened - After a couple of attempts, he told me about his fear - once we knew what the issue was we could address it. No way I could get mum to change her attitude (Not at first).

Finaly -  even though you have a solicitor, it might be a good idea to apply to join SRL-R. Their you can discuss your case with others without fear of it being public.

I noted your comment - We only prepare affidavits the day before court. I would be very concerned at that.

For me - Shared Parenting is a Reality - Maybe it can be for you too!
Monster, If I may suggest a solution to your spelling and grammar, try using Microsoft word to type your statement that you are posting first, then do a spell check, after that copy and past what you have written into the forum.

If you don't talk about it, how can anyone help you move forward!
There is a void of distinction between what is considered to be important when approaching orders.

Many will advise that emotions need to be separate from legals, the reason for this is emotions cloud legal process.

Many here understand how important some of the issues are viewed from an emotional stand point because they have been there, they have also learnt along the way the need to separate this from the orders to the point of being clinical and taking a third persons eye via due process of what can be expected and where to place clauses tactfully enough to pass the scrutiny of all concerned.

Part of what you are seeking are workable orders the other part is forced behavioral change that may be considered adversary, this is not what you want to appear when in court.

Things need to be categorized as workable and not workable, identifying what is emotional and trimming this from what is achievable is paramount.

You need to realize that because something is identified as emotional it does not mean it is not important to you it simply means it may not be viable to establish in orders.

Conan is right, those with the badges have done the miles and if they say it you can bet they have thought deeply about it and their knowledge is gold.

It's up to you how you progress just remember many of us have walked your path and are really doing the best by all and sunder.

Personally I can tell you that you can make a difference to your children no matter what the other parent does, but you need to stop and think why your fighting.
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