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Superannuation is greater than liquid assets

Sorry I am new and do not know where to post this.

I was a member of the military and served more than 20 years and am now receiving a military pension.

My X and myself purchased a house and land some time ago but the current state of the market is such that my pension is worth more than the house and land.

My X has sort orders for some of my pension and 100% of the house which leaves me with virtually nothing.

During the latter part of my marriage I contributed over 1.3k to the marriage from payouts mostly from the military and compensation for injuries (which happened when we were not married).

My X was with me for less than half the period I was in the military and did not contribute at all to my military super.

In my X's affidavit she has lied and distorted the truth which I can prove because I have kept nearly every document I have ever had for the last 25 years.

We did not have any children but I had to support her children during the marriage and she was not receiving child support from the husband of her children because she said it would have been to hard.

I also have a medical condition that if it returns is life threatening.

My questions are:

1. Does anyone know of a good lawyer who has dealt with military superannuation in property settlement

2. What is the likely hood of my x getting her way.

It seems that being prepared to put ones life on the line for over 20 years (which I have and was almost killed on 2 occasions) to protect the very institution I am now facing because of the greed of another, counts for nothing.

Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Super military

Military super is treated no differently from civilian super; it is part of the asset pool. They could not care less what you did to receive it.

You need to join as an SRL. There is an often quoted case about an RAAF guy and his super.

I am also ex military! Chocks away chaps!

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas. 
Thanks Monteverdi.

Looks like I have an uphill battle.
IsntLifeGrand, please join the SRL's on here, I'm sure the hill will not be as steep by doing that.
Dated a lot of ex-military - does that count?

Seriously, the SRL-r's can offer an awful lot of help. They can get you focussing on the real issues and away from the lesser ones.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 

Hotel Echo Lima Lima Oscar

I bet Artemis tore them down a stripe or two! ha ha. Join the SRL and we can help; does not matter if you are ex army - I/we will still help. Financial matters are complex, so we would need to know every thing - no secrets!

I was ex RAF (helicopter aircrewman),both my parents were in the airforce and so was my grandfather(navigator). We do understand the military way!

The sergeant major has a crown upon his arm; but he thinks it on his f#$%&ing head! Words from a song I remember.

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas. 
Ahhh you were in the REAL Air Force Montiverdi? I was in the Royal AMATEUR Air Force….  :lol:  My Dad was RAF.

At the very least we will be able to the lingo isntlifegrand - cya in SRL.

When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
As Monteverdi suggests a pension is the same regardless of the source, excepting if it is an old age pension that one is entitled to when 75(2)(o) factors are considered.

Pre-cohabition contributions are perhaps a component part of your arguments.

Health factors are arguable with medical evidence. If you hold all your documentation you are empowered.

Your matter is on first take weighted in your favour, yet, what sayeth the other side?

If you put your affairs in the hands of the legal industry your plight may not necessarily improve.

Firstly you need to determine if you are willing to put in the work and learn how to represent yourself, or just HAND it over to the legal industry.

Initially the costs associated with filling in documents with solicitors is money for nothing. Should you feel you are unable to put your case, then you can engage counsel.

Decision time if you wish to keep Life Grand!

What is done for you, let it be done, what you must do, be sure you do it, as the wise person does today that what the fool will do in three days - Buddha
IsntLifeGrand.

You might be better getting your posting points up -and joining SRL-R so your matter can be hidden in the private forums.

Who knows who might be reading your posts.

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Thanks everyone for your most intersting comments..On and off the subject.

It seems as though I am going to be fighting an uphill battle, no pun intended.

I am currently paying for a lawyer but it seems as though all the person is looking at are the figures on paper and not the whole picture.  I have tried to be as concise as possible without trying to let emotions take over.  The impression I have at the moment is that my lawyer is taking the side of my x.  This to me is not that a good start to proceedings hence one of the reasons I am here.

What I am hoping (god forbid) is that if it does go to court that the powers that be do not just look at figures on paper and looks at the whole picture.  "fair and just" is all I am hoping for.

Money

What do you mean by fair and just? Each case is different, especially when it comes to s.79 & s.75 matters. Every single item of value will be placed in the pool, this includes super, shares, property, long service leave etc etc.

The main source of information will be the F13 financial statement; this is what the Judge/Magistrate will  go off. It is very important NOT to lie on this F13.
 

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas. 
What did I mean by "fair and Just".  Exactly that.  I know every case is different and in this forum it is impossible to give a full picture.

With the F13 I have given full diclosure, I have nothing to hide.

Where the issue lays is contributions, both financial and non financial from both sides.

Answers to questions of property?

To best understand the non-financial contributions a very careful reading of s79(4) of the act is recommended. The wording of that section needs to be disassembled to be best understood in my mind.

s79(4)(b) as written in the act is:

(b) the contribution (other than a financial contribution) made directly or indirectly by or on behalf of a party to the marriage or a child of the marriage to the acquisition, conservation or improvement of any of the property of the parties to the marriage or either of them, or otherwise in relation to any of that last‑mentioned property, whether or not that last‑mentioned property has, since the making of the contribution, ceased to be the property of the parties to the marriage or either of them; and


With some consideration of how that might be interpreted I found the following helpful:

By prefacing the following with "Have you made…"

- the financial contribution made directly to the acquisition of any property INCLUDES CONSULTANCY or any commonly held asset

- the financial contribution made conservation of any  acquisition (decorating, repairs, general business associated with,

- the financial benefits gained from the conservation of any  acquisition

- the financial contribution made directly to the acquisition of last mentioned property

- the financial contribution made conserving (increase or maintain its worth) of  last mentioned property

- the indirect financial benefits gained from the conservation (increase or maintain its worth) of  last mentioned property

- the indirect financial contribution made directly to the acquisition of any property INCLUDES CONSULTANCY any commonly held asset

- the indirect financial contribution made conservation of any  acquisition (decorating, repairs, general business associated with,

- the indirect financial benefits gained from the conservation of any  acquisition

- the indirect financial contribution made directly to the acquisition of last mentioned property

- the indirect financial contribution made conservation (increase or maintain its worth) of  last mentioned property

- the indirect financial benefits gained from the conservation (increase or maintain its worth) of  last mentioned property

- the on behalf of a party financial contribution made directly to the acquisition of any property INCLUDES CONSULTANCY any commonly held asset

- the on behalf of a party financial contribution made conservation of any  acquisition (decorating, repairs, general business associated with,

- the on behalf of a party financial benefits gained from the conservation of any  acquisition

- the on behalf of a party financial contribution made directly to the acquisition of last mentioned property

- the on behalf of a party financial contribution made conservation (increase or maintain its worth) of  last mentioned property the on behalf of a party financial benefits gained from the conservation (increase or maintain its worth) of  last mentioned property

directly or

indirectly by or

on behalf of a party to the marriage or a child of the marriage to

the acquisition,

conservation or

improvement of any of the property of the parties to the marriage or either of them, or otherwise in

relation to any of that last-mentioned property, whether or not that last-mentioned property has, since the making of the contribution, ceased to be the property of the parties to the marriage or either of them; - list properties

Being mindful that what is included in one's Evidence in Chief (Affidavit) is admitted into the trial record.

Quite a few guys have worked on improving properties whilst ther partners have contributed in other ways.


When a person contacts a Family Law solicitor they are meant to complete a questionairre. Having the information readily comprehendable is important regardless of the path chosen.

The following information may be sought: (A good solicitor would be very appreciativeif one came well prepared)

INFORMATION:

Date: …………..

CLIENT DETAILS

Name: ……………………………….

Current address: …………………………………….

Phone: ……………………………….

Present occupation: ……………………………….

Name and address of employer: ……………………………………………………

Phone: ……………………………….

Date of birth: ……………………………….

Place of birth: ……………………………….I

If born outside Australia, year first entered Australia: ……………………………….

SPOUSE DETAILS

Spouse's name: ……………………………….

Current address: …………………………………….

Phone: ……………………………….

Spouse's current occupation: ……………………………….

Name and address of spouse's employer: ……………………………………………………

Phone: ……………………………….

Spouse's date of birth: ……………………………….

Spouse's place of birth: ……………………………….

If spouse born outside Australia, year first entered Australia: ……………………………….

Name of spouse's lawyer (if any): ……………………………….

Address and phone: ……………………………………………………

MARRIAGE DETAILS

Date cohabitation commenced: ……………………………….

Date of marriage: ……………………………….

Place of marriage: ……………………………….

Civil or religious ceremony? ……………………………….

Copy of the marriage certificate? ……………………………….

In English? ……………………………….

Date of separation: ……………………………….

Is this a marriage of less than two years' duration?  ……………………………….

Circumstances surrounding separation…………………………………………………………………………..

Joint residence at time of separation: ……………………………………………………

Any resumption of cohabitation? ……………………………….

If so, details ……………………………………………………

Is there any prospect of reconciliation? ……………………………………………………

Residence of parties since separation (and dates)Yours: ……………………………………………………

Spouses: ……………………………………………………

Has either client or spouse been married before? ……………………………….
(If so, give details of marriage/death/dissolution/children from previous relationships)

……………………………………………….

CHILD DETAILS

Names of children - Dates of birth - Where living

1 ……………………………………………………

2  …………………………………………………..

3 ……………………………………………………

4 ……………………………………………………

5 ……………………………………………………

Schools and years

……………………………………………….

……………………………………………….

……………………………………………….

Does anyone live with you? ……………………………….

Who lives with each of the children? ………………………………………

What are the present arrangements for the children?

- Housing ……………………………………………..

- Supervision ……………………………………………..

- Education ……………………………………………..

- Health ……………………………………………..

- Access (Contact) ……………………………………………..

- Maintenance (Child Support) …………………………………………….

- Other support (including financial) ……………………………………………..

Are there any proposals to change these arrangements? If so, specify

……………………………………….

Any previous court orders? ……………………………….

Any pending court proceedings? ……………………………….

CLIENT CONCERNS

What particular concerns does client have? ……………………………………………………

ACTIONS TO BE EFFECTED:

Write out a chronological history of the marriage relationship - residences, jobs, children, illnesses.

Write out pool of assets of husband and wife and approximate valuations at:

- commencement of relationship

- separation

- now

Any assets acquired after 19 September 1985? (Potential capital gains tax liability.)

Write out debts of husband and wife at:

- commencement of relationship

- separation

- now

Write out any "special" contributions to assets and financial resources such as gifts, inheritances, damages awards, entrepreneurial skills.

Details of future needs and incomes of husband, wife and children (if any).

What are current arrangements concerning continued payment of:

- hospital and medical insurance

- car insurance

- hire purchase instalments

- mortgages

- council rates

- electricity

- school fees

- life insurance

- maintenance for children

Is there any danger of self-help, eg, bank accounts emptied, overdrafts increased, land sold or mortgaged, furniture removed?

PROPERTY AND MAINTENANCE INFORMATION:

REQUIREMENTS: Exactly what does one want?

Divorce, share of land, share of cash (chattels (detailed list of all assets)), accommodation, caveat/injunction, prevent dissipation of assets or blow-out of overdraft

income/spouse maintenance, child custody, child maintenance, access, costs, other………………………

KNOWLEDGE REQUIRED: sec 79 property principles, current court delay but frequent pre-trial settlement, uncertainty of result due to emerging facts, credibility of evidence, identity of judge, spousal and child maintenance, social security entitlement, legal costs, non-recovery of legal costs, conveyancing costs, stamp duty exemptions, any potential capital gains tax liabilities.

Counselling: Where marriage of less than two years' duration, counselling documents,

Costs: copy of Registrar's pamphlet, costs agreement.

Will: possible need for re-drafting of will, Re-drafted will does not affect joint tenancy - give general advice.

DOCUMENTS:

Marriage certificate, missing details re dates, etc., copies of contracts, mortgage and correspondence, Previous court documents, Financial records and tax returns, Medical records or other relevant documents, , Filing/service fees, Consider/sign costs agreement, Fees in advance, Terms of will, Prepare monthly budget (income and expenses),

Prepare lists (assets and debts of both parties):

before marriage - at separation - now, a chronological history of the marriage (employment, residences, children, extensions, etc.), a copy of memorandum and articles of association of ………………………………., copy of trust deed, other ………………………………….

ACTIONS TO BE TAKEN:

The following copies should be collated at the earliest opportunity:

1. Copies of your income tax returns and assessments for the past three financial years.

2. If you or your spouse have any interest in any business or partnership, please provide us with business tax returns, financial statements and assessments for the past two financial years.

3. If you or your spouse are controlling/majority shareholder or the governing director/managing director of any proprietary company, please provide the balance sheets and profit and loss accounts for the last two completed financial years, and the Memorandum and Articles of Association of those companies.

4. Your wage statements from 1 July of the current tax year, if possible.

5. Your spouse's wage statements (if you can get them) from 1 July of the current tax year, if possible.

6. Savings passbooks and investment certificates, owned by you and your spouse, individually or jointly. Also give name of stockbroker or accountants.

7. Please provide a photocopy of the current balance on deposit with any financial institutions, including but not limited to, savings and loan or other financial institutions, including account number, and in whose name the account is held.

8. Registration certificates of all motor vehicles owned by you or your spouse, individually or jointly. If registration certificate not available, then a full description of each vehicle.

9. Provide photocopies of the front sheets of all life insurance policies, with statements of loans against same. Provide the company name and policy or group number of all health and medical insurance, and obtain from the company a statement as to coverage for spouse and children.

10. Provide the front sheets and schedules for any and all household insurance policies. Said schedules should include furs, jewellery and any property listed by value.

11. An inventory (room by room) and an estimate of the value of your household furniture and furnishings and household contents. Normally, household furniture should be given a "garage sale" value unless it is of an antique or of special value. See Note above for definition of "value". Circle any item which you particularly want for yourself for sentimental or other reasons.

12. If there is any interest in an estate, provide a copy of the Will and copies of accounts and correspondence evidencing distributions to you or your family. As to trusts, please provide a copy of the trust instrument and tax returns, if any, for the trust for the past two years.

13. With respect to each parcel of real estate, list the addresses and secure a copy of the legal description which will appear on the title deed and mortgage.

14. A copy of the mortgage on your home, and upon any other real estate. Bring the last mortgage payment statement if you have it.

15. Please provide copies of electricity, gas, council and water rates and other outgoings in relation to each parcel of real estate. If any parcel of real estate has been valued, also provide copies of valuations.

16. Please provide us with a us a copy of your shares, and all other securities owned by you and your spouse, individually or jointly, and name of broker or brokers. If you are unable to obtain copies, then provide us with the name of the companies, type of security and the name of the broker through whom you do business.

17. A list of all outstanding bills owed by you or your spouse individually or jointly, along with copies of the most recent billings on the accounts.

18. If either spouse was previously divorced, and/or involved in a court hearing, furnish us with copies of the divorce decree, applications and affidavits and if possible a transcript of evidence given in court.

19. Any other information that will help establish your net worth, your spouse's net worth, your joint net worth, your income, and your spouse's income.

KEEP A DIARY OF ALL EVENTS ASSOCIATED WITH COURT EVENTS, CONVERSATIONS, CHILDREN, ALL ASSOCIATED ACTIVITY.

Good luck.

What is done for you, let it be done, what you must do, be sure you do it, as the wise person does today that what the fool will do in three days - Buddha

Consider M&M Full Court Judgment

IsntLifeGrand said
What did I mean by "fair and Just".  Exactly that.  I know every case is different and in this forum it is impossible to give a full picture.

With the F13 I have given full disclosure, I have nothing to hide.

Where the issue lays is contributions, both financial and non financial from both sides.
If you are confident or can get help, I'd suggest not using lawyers.

Read M & M [2006] FamCA 913 (20 September 2006) (attached below) - a recent Full Court appeal with Diana Bryant (Chief Justice, FCA), Finn and Boland JJ. The Dad was a Mr Plod but his super deal was similar to army ie defined benefit.

The first judge took only $80,000 from his $1,000,000 super. And the Full Court took another $80,000 or so, but it was still $200,000 less than the West & Green formula.

So essentially it is business as normal: pre splitting amendments super was treated purely as s 79(4)g ie IF relevant, ie a return to pre 1987 where s 75(2) WAS seen as a MAINTENANCE adjustment.

If I were you I would be writing a submission based on the M & M case and go to court (including pre- conferences) with that.

Attachment
Thanks verdad for the info, a lot of it I have found out through different sources but other info that you have mentioned I did not know about.

The Lawyer I have at the moment did not give me a questionairre to fill out, it was all verbal.  Another thing I found unsettling was that I would mention something to the lawyer at the time and was told that yes that it will be taken into consideration then the next time I mentioned it the reply was, "No they will not consider it".  It is most confusing and disheartening.  I might add that the lawyer I have at the moment is from a reasonably well know law firm.

Thanks also LifeInsight, I am learning very quickly that the only winners are the lawyers.

You are correct the kids are grown, we did not have any children from the marriage only from previous marriages.  I might add that I get on well with all the kids, I can't say that about the X.  

I will be joining the SRL and if I can help anyone even if it is just sharing my experience, I will.

Thanks again everyone for all the info and help, it is GREATLY appreciated.  I am only sorry I did not know about this site before the merry-go-round started.

 
The problem I have is to try and prove the non financial contributions I had made during the marriage, I can partly do this by proving that the other party has not been all that honest in her affidavit.  

From my limited exposure to the system it seems as if there is a bias towards the female as home maker and carer, granted in most cases this is the case but not in all.
Thankyou LifeInsight.

That is an interesting concept, it is amazing how one comment can change the way one thinks.  

I do not however want compensation from my x because at no time during the relationship was I thinking of being compensated for something that I thought was a natural thing for a partner to do.  A little recogniton from the x would be nice. It was because of me that my x was able to gain qualifications and earn a decent income.


LifeInsight said
don't think you will have any problems proving non-financial contributions if you have a great relationship with her kids. I think your ex needs to be compensating you for not having kids with you and the for the years of support you gave her and her kids bringing them up.
It is a challenge to imagine how the relationship with you children will be admitted as material evidence.

Consider focusing on recalling the non-financial contributions you have provided. List them in a chronological order. Ferret around for invoices or whatever substantiates your claims.

In your Affidavit there is space enough for you to honestly recall those actions, the materials acquired and any circumstances as to when they occured.

These matters are evidence based. Relying upon opinions has no traction in a court hearing.

What is done for you, let it be done, what you must do, be sure you do it, as the wise person does today that what the fool will do in three days - Buddha
I think that substantiating the non-financial contributions will be hard to prove unless I can locate  work time sheets etc for my x, most jobs she had was shift work in the evenings and weekends for the extra  money and who was looking after the family, me.  I do have however video of the different things I took the children to without the presence of the x in any of it.

I also have to prove that what my x has written in her affidavit can not be relied upon and in parts is not true.

It is disheartening to realize that the person who you once trusted and loved is prepared to lie and distort the truth to get as much out of you as possible
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