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Hi SRL saying hello

Hello there

i only found this place today

I am a SRL in the middle of a bloody battle with my ex partner over our Daughter, Its my second one i six years with her.

I have done almost everything myself up to this point. It has been rewarding and dissapointing, Enlightening and painful. I have won simple interim hearings but i know the final one is a different story

We are awaiting final hearing dates and now i am beginning to panic. I wish i had found this place earlier.

I really want to met up with a group or people in Sydney to share what i know, and to get some help.

any ideas would be welcome

thanks

;-)

Last edit: by gooner


They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

Have you got a date for the Affidavit for the Final Hearing  and Compliance Cert?
This is a very important date because if you fall short and can not file your Compliance Cert you will go on a defaulters list with a black mark against you.

We are waiting for final trial date, and we have up to 28 days to file final aff before that date.

Weve been ordered to do one big new one and not to rely on any of our others… Im just getting to grips with mine now…

Im pretty good with affidavits but this one has to be perfect, There is a LOT of annexures
cheerz

They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

Copy and paste helps if you can use it.
Answer questions like;
The house you live in is rented/owned?
The home you/I live in is a _ bedroom brick single/double story in ___ area with a __ backyard (fenced/not fenced), for the children to safely play in…  
Who lives there?
How many bedrooms?
Can they have friends sleep over?
Are school friends neighbours of yours or close by?
How can you tend to the daily needs of your children?
What evidence of this like; Certificates of Courses completed, statements of common practice by you of ability to cook, wash, clean house(not in comparison to the Ex forget her you are building your abilities up, not hers down),
Do the children have shared bedrooms and with whom or own?
What Play areas and how big are these areas?
How safe are these areas for children?
School work area; desks, computer, in main room or bedrooms, etc?
What supervision is available and when, when you are not available to supervise?
Travel time from school to your home, your home to other parents?
Do you want majority care if you're Ex lives in Qld? I say Yes
Do you want equal care if you're Ex lives near you? I say Yes
Do you believe your Ex can handle equal care if she lives near you? I say Yes
Can you handle majority care if you have it? I say Yes
How long have the twins been in your sole care?

These are questions I was putting to someone else but you can use them as a start piont
If you have drafted previous affidavits you will have some idea of what is required.

The final affidavit will be very large. It needs to state all the key events of the relationship and court case.

You need to think about what conclusion you want the magistrate/judge to draw, backed by the family law act and without stating the bleeding obvious.

After you have read a few affidavits, it's like following a bouncing ball. This happened, that happened and in ones head, you're saying, yes, that's violation of section X of the act. That's the effect you're aiming for.

Read the orders for the final VERY carefully as they will tell you everything you need to do.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Artemis said
….The final affidavit will be very large. It needs to state all the key events of the relationship and court case.

You need to think about what conclusion you want the magistrate/judge to draw, backed by the family law act and without stating the bleeding obvious.

Read the orders for the final VERY carefully as they will tell you everything you need to do.
Its not the situation or the actual writing thats the problem, We have a two and a half year old status quo that will be hard for her to get past, plus she is lying plain and simple…

This is where I am having problems……. relating the act and precedents to the obvious and overwhelming evidence i have that my ex is lying…

I also have a DREADFUL family report to contend with where the writer broke all sorts of rules, lied and came to conclusions without referring to documents he was meant to have looked at….. Like……. how do i go into the final hearing and quote a precedent that gets his report kicked out????  Where do i find them?

Thats that kind of thing I ned help wiv
Artemis said
…Read the orders for the final VERY carefully as they will tell you everything you need to do.
  Wot does this mean?

Last edit: by Secretary SPCA


They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

gooner said
Its not the situation or the actual writing thats the problem, We have a two and a half year old status quo that will be hard for her to get past, plus she is lying plain and simple…

This is where I am having problems……. relating the act and precedents to the obvious and overwhelming evidence i have that my ex is lying…
There are many forum topics here about Status Quo. The case precedent is Rice & Asplund and cases relating to matters returning to court after final orders. If you search and review some of the key "Judgements of interest forum" then search using our main search engine and use the "Canned Search" function to the right and center of the page. These will give you a good idea of what is around.

In respect to the ex lying in her affidavits then you will need to take each point that is made and disprove it with credible factual evidence in your affidavit. This work will make or break your case. Start now do not leave it until the day before it is due. These documents take a considerable time to get correct. You must ensure you keep to the point, short and without embellishment. Do not get down to who left the toilet seat up or down or the affidavit will become too volumous and any reasonable person reading will fast loose interest.
gooner said
I also have a DREADFUL family report to contend with where the writer broke all sorts of rules, lied and came to conclusions without referring to documents he was meant to have looked at….. Like……. how do i go into the final hearing and quote a precedent that gets his report kicked out????  Where do i find them?

Thats that kind of thing I need help wiv
Again you need to take each point / para section by section and refute with credible evidence the omissions, and erroneous parts of the report. Start now. Do this methodically and in sections. Deal with a paragraph at a time. You need to show a credible response and amalgamate what may well be a lot of disjointed previous affidavits.

No Justice has given you a good clue (Over and above what you will be responding to already) with some of the headings you need to show a response to. If you are involved in a paragraph around the children's conditions at home, go on and add the responses to the questions No Justice has raised in that section. Keep everything together in sections. Start with the affidavit response based on refuting adding to credible responses and then add in more around the topic to ensure everything is told.

I might also add that the support from members and moderators is voluntary. Ensure that you weigh up comments made and look to the Avatar (logo) of the poster to see what sort of status they have. You can "mouse over" the Avatar's or click on the Avatar to get a full profile of the member. Legal advice is not given here but you can draw on an absolute goldmine of information from many members who have "been there and done that". If any of these members posts help you then let us hear about that as it always good to hear some good news from our members. All to often we have many good outcomes but never really hear to much more after we get them over the line.

One thing I can say is you will not find a better bunch of people than you find on this web portal. :thumbs:

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
Thanks very much Mr Secretary :) I will look at those sections you pointed out, Ive got a fair bit to share as well, Im sort of a bit relieved to find a place that will understand whats happening!!

Tis a very frustrating period in my life…..

Cheerz again

They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

Gooner,

what I meant was that you should read the instructions given by the magistrate or judge, for the final hearing carefully. Experienced solicitor's often don't and this is where mistakes can be made.

All evidence to be relied on may need to be re-submitted, for example.

That is what I mean.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
 One of my problems with the Final Hearing was that I had to come to terms with the fact my ex had made so many false statements in her affidavits there was a good probability she would be spending time in jail for her crimes. Not a good state of affairs for the children or your mind. I have come to terms with the fact after years that that is where she should have been because my hesitancy cause my children to be deprived of my interaction.

Some Judges (like my fav Judge, the CJ  and Carter J) do not want you to prove the mothers fabrication of evidence and false statements (s.36 and 35 of the Crimes Act 1914). They will claim you are just trying to undermine the mother's ability to parent and totally disregard the criminal misbehaviour of the mother, on the other hand if you step 1 step out of line they will come down on you like a tonne of bricks.

S.117AB of the Family Law Act provides for costs to be awarded against any person proven to make false statements to the Family Court. Costs can be sought at any time in the Final Hearing so your alligations of false statements could be under the provisions of s.117AB of the Act.

Feel free to come back to me by direct contact if you want, but you must put aside any feelings of regret that you may cause the mother criminal prosecution because it is unlikely you will get a Family Court Judge that will allow that to occur other than to you. Exceptions do occur but more so when Counsel seek that evidence and recommendation be made to the AG not from a SRL, has been my experience.

No-Justice said
 S.117AB of the Family Law Act provides for costs to be awarded against any person proven to make false statements to the Family Court. Costs can be sought at any time in the Final Hearing so your alligations of false statements could be under the provisions of s.117AB of the Act.

Feel free to come back to me by direct contact if you want, but you must put aside any feelings of regret that you may cause the mother criminal prosecution because it is unlikely you will get a Family Court Judge that will allow that to occur other than to you. Exceptions do occur but more so when Counsel seek that evidence and recommendation be made to the AG not from a SRL, has been my experience.

 
No-Justice makes a very important observation. The Family Court seems incredibly reluctant to prosecute parents who lie, especially when dealing with child residency/contact matters. I have so far only found two decisions where s117AB has been applied against a parent who has made false allegations in order the prevent the other parent from having contact with said child.

These two are listed below.

Sharma & Sharma (No. 2) [2007] FamCA 425 (2 March 2007)

Hogan & Halvorsen [2007] FMCAfam 1131 (4 June 2007)

There are however many other judgments where costs have been awarded for false allegations, but these have been mostly child support and property matters.

So no matter how well you prove your case, it is extremely unlikely (to impossible) that your ex will be imprisoned.

The best you can get is (some) costs in your favour, and a favourable decision, especially if credibility becomes an issue.

It may be an idea however to keep reminding yourself that your goal is not to prove that your ex is a terrible person, but simply to show that her statements are misguided, incorrect, and possibly knowingly false.

Then you let the Judge do the math.
Note in "Sharma" Justice Ryan say's at para 16 "The wife spends all of her income in meeting her and the children's necessary expenses. She has no money remaining and no capacity to meet higher mortgage costs or additional loan repayments. The effect of this finding is that anything other than a modest costs order against the wife is likely to require the sale of the home in which she and for half of the time, the children live. Such an outcome is almost certain to cause the children great distress."

The fact the children spend most of their day at school and the mother could find a job, is overlooked by the Judge in preference of the mother has no capacity to pay.

This without causing her the same inconvenience bestowed on men "find a job".

Note the Judge states "since 14 December 2004 the husband incurred costs in the vicinity of $43,000" then limits the mother's s.117AB costs to 25% of the husbands costs of the Final Hearing only.

I wonder what would have happened had the false statements been proven against the husband, 100% against him probably, it did not help the husband did not declare fully his financial position.  What was also not looked at was the wife had a life of being provided for, no requirement to support the family financially when her homely duties diminished by the children going to school, but then maybe the Judge would have given the wife a princess life supported by the husband.

Single mothers the world over often admit they can find work if they want to, it was just they had no need when the husband provided for them. Jadiz, I'm not saying it is easy but it is there for those who want to get off their princess requirements of others provide for them, as you are proving. I wonder if the spousal support laws should be removed in this age of government support.
No-Justice said
Note in "Sharma" Justice Ryan say's …….The fact the children spend most of their day at school and the mother could find a job, is overlooked by the Judge in preference of the mother has no capacity to pay.
 
No-Justice, I think what gooner needs rights now is constructive advice on how to manage his proceedings.

Highlighting the injustices of the system will not help someone who is already feeling extreme pressure and anxiety.

Gooner, if at all possible, try and distance yourself from the personal hurt you may be feeling, and see this as a game of chess.

Learn the written rules, then try and learn the unwritten rules, and try and make the best move in light of these rules. This will increase your chance of a win.

Don't get too caught up in trying to vilify your ex, because Judges simply don't like that. They want to be the judge, and they simply want you to be the messenger of facts.

If you are perceived as being vindictive, then you will lose the advantage you currently have over your ex due to her alleged lies.

Of course having said that, every good barrister will tell you that the trick in court is in leading the Judge to the conclusions you want, without being obvious about it. This can only be done properly if you contain your emotions and let your head do the thinking.
No-Justice said
Feel free to come back to me by direct contact if you want, but you must put aside any feelings of regret that you may cause the mother criminal prosecution because it is unlikely you will get a Family Court Judge that will allow that to occur other than to you. Exceptions do occur but more so when Counsel seek that evidence and recommendation be made to the AG not from a SRL, has been my experience.

On 19th February the senior moderator posted this:

Several posters have started making suggestions for legal options via the telephone or directly emailing a site member without knowing or understanding the case in question or having any legal expertise. In several cases these suggestions have been incorrect to the point of causing potential harm to the case.

It is recommended that if you are asking for (or receive) legal options that you check the posters credentials very carefully


this was in particular reference to you.

You misused the forums and used them to make private contact with a member and suggested a course of legal action that was dangerously incorrect and almost wrecked the case.

You have a history of failures in both the Family and High Courts so you should not suggest your losing strategies to other members of this portal as a means of proxy fighting your own case.


SRL-Resources. the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) www.srl-resources.org  Non gender Professional and peer support for SRLs. Closed site, no public forums, no search engines, no lurkers, guests or the other side and their Lawyer and Friends.
gooner said
We are waiting for final trial date, and we have up to 28 days to file final aff before that date.

Weve been ordered to do one big new one and not to rely on any of our others… Im just getting to grips with mine now…

Im pretty good with affidavits but this one has to be perfect, There is a LOT of annexures
cheerz
  Can I suggest that you download or print off s60CC of the Family Law Act and use that as a guide. Go through it paragraph by paragraph and make notes of everything you consider relevant under each sub-section. Stick to evidence of what you saw, heard, said, and did rather than opinion or arguement. You can sometimes get away with hearsay, but quote and identify the source. Remember, only go into detail about what is relevant, and what is contested. No point wasting pages telling the J or FM about agreed or uncontested facts.
Artemis said
Gooner,

what I meant was that you should read the instructions given by the magistrate or judge, for the final hearing carefully. Experienced solicitor's often don't and this is where mistakes can be made.

All evidence to be relied on may need to be re-submitted, for example.

That is what I mean.
 
We have had a change of Judge right in the middle of things, so its all been up in the air….

He didnt really give any directions, he did say we had to do one big new fresh one that encompases all before it and we were not allowed to refer to any past ones, so its going to be a bit of an amalgamation, with a whole heap of new stuff. I want to try to stick to the points of evidence and avoid emotion, but its bloody hard…….

Im also waiting for her final affidavit and i dont want to reveal my evidence, some of it is new and stunning, too early…. Its all too much for little old me sometimes…….im so over this game, but i have to fight until victory

As for the lying stuff, i hope i have that well covered. I have recently been given documents that show that this person is waaaaaaaay beyond telling a fibbie to a court, Im hoping what i have found out will lead to proper criminal charges, and i have started tha ball rolling so thanks for filling me in on the fam court aspect…….it does not surprise me……

peace

Last edit: by gooner


They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

gooner said
Im also waiting for her final affidavit and i dont want to reveal my evidence, some of it is new and stunning,

Stop watching American TV shows. Both sides get to respond to evidence - if its new and stunning and can have a profound effect on the outcome and the other side has not had time to respond or prepare a proper verbal response - then expect a delay. A 'Perry Mason' goes down like a lead balloon in the Family Courts.


Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Agog said
gooner said
Im also waiting for her final affidavit and i dont want to reveal my evidence, some of it is new and stunning,
  Stop watching American TV shows. Both sides get to respond to evidence - if its new and stunning and can have a profound effect on the outcome and the other side has not had time to respond or prepare a proper verbal response - then expect a delay. A 'Perry Mason' goes down like a lead balloon in the Family Courts.


  hahaha, i DONT do that mate, i watch the shield… does that count???

all im saying is i want to see her final one before i prepare mine, after all im the respondant…. I know this stuff will have to come out before final hearing, but there is no need to chuck it in her face just yet

;-)

They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

Another main thing you need to watch is the time you have to write this affidavit, they can take weeks and end up like a book. Don't forget you need time to swear the thing and copy it before you file and serve, then file your cert of compliance.

Have you subpoenaed your evidence that requires to be subped copied and included in your affidavit so you can rely on it in Court?
  
No-Justice said
Another main thing you need to watch is the time you have to write this affidavit, they can take weeks and end up like a book. Don't forget you need time to swear the thing and copy it before you file and serve, then file your cert of compliance.

Have you subpoenaed your evidence that requires to be subped copied and included in your affidavit so you can rely on it in Court?


 

Hi

i know its gonna take time to write, im starting it now and giving myself a month to get it togther in a lucid format, As for the subpoena stuff, yes, i did subpoena documents, so did the child rep….lts quite annoying really cos the stuff i subpoenad was all relevant at the time. but now i have this "new evidence" they have sort of become useless. (the ones i requested)

I am going to registry next week to look through subpoenad stuff from the ICR so i can link exact passages and pages to my final affidavit, Thats a job in iteslf as i cant copy them and i cant go to and fro from parramatta every day just to check documents…

This site is GREAT

thanks everyone, i am listning!!!

They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

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