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Starting to Understand Emotions - Topic 1

What do emotions really tell us and how can we start to let intensely charged sitations go naturally!

Accepting Our Emotions

Emotions are sometimes difficult for us to handle!

Love:

When expressed as unconditionally as we can we help to build our children's self esteem and develop a loving and caring relationship!

Joy:

When we allow ourselves to be joyful and have fun we model to our children a life of joy and fun. The more we can have joy and fun in our lives and allow our children to experience these emotions the more they will be able to develop the pathways in their brains to be positive, loving, joyful and happy.

Anger:

When appropriately expressed, anger can be a fire or passion for change.  Only when it's misdirected, or inappropriately expressed, is it destructive. Recognising and accepting our own anger will provide the impetus for change.  Off-loading it onto others, making them 'the bad guys', gives away our personal power and often leaves us stuck with the problem.

Resentment:

This is like frozen anger and is a feeling that blames others for a situation or for a hurt we feel.  It's an 'export job' - a way of holding others apart from us, to maintain a position of being right, superior or self-righteous.  It's often easier to feel resentment rather than to take responsibility for other feelings, or for changing the situation.

Hurt:

Underneath resentment and anger there is often hurt.  Acknowledging that you feel hurt is empowering.  The alternatives are often to withdraw, to seek revenge or to feel resentment.  All of these contribute to the escalation of conflict.  Often it is easier for others to acknowledge our hurt than our anger. When talking about our anger, we may be better received if we also talk about our hurt.

Guilt:

Guilt can be very self-destructive when we allow it to gnaw away at us.  It can be productive when we allow ourselves to feel it fully, and then move on by seeking to understand the source of our guilt.  It is then that we can choose what needs to be done to resolve it.  All we may be able to do is decide not to do what we did again, in a similar situation.  Or we may be able to learn a new way of behaving.

Regret:

Often when we show anger or resentment, we are also hiding regret.  We have great difficulty in experiencing and expressing the pain and sorrow under the anger and resentment.  Fear, anxiety and embarrassment block the expression of regret.  Regret is a huge feeling that is the acknowledgement of the unfulfilled potential of a situation.  It is often the last emotion before we let go the "if only's" and reach a place of acceptance.

Fear:

We often experience this when we feel out of control of a situation.  Fear arises from our interpretation of what the outcome will be; physical or emotional hurt, or consequences that will diminish us or our circumstances in some way.

© McMahon: www.conflictresolutionbooks.com.au  ISBN  1-920904-00X

Emotions - Just a few ideas to reflect on and consider.

We only attract to us "who we are"; e.g. we attract anger because we have 'shadow' anger.  We try to manage the emotion instead of realising it is how we are reacting to the environment we are in.

It is simple to learn how to release emotion, yet most of us do not want to or do not know how to. We need to recognise how our body is reacting to the emotion; or behaviour; simply know this is how the body is reacting.

We can change our relationship to the information we are receiving that stimulates us to act out an emotion in a particular manner.

Some people feel they are a 'Victim' to the environment and therefore the emotion they do not own they are creating the emotion through their thoughts, personality, needs of the ego; or concerns from flight or fight response.

We can diffuse or build emotion or clear the emotion; but the change is not sustainable unless the person changes their response or reaction to their environment.

Clearing or diffusing an emotion gives a window of opportunity for the person to start to change how they respond to their environment through changing beliefs, attitudes, self talk, strategies of dealing with flight and flight reactions.

We need to stop JUDGING OUR ENVIRONMENT and the people within it. It is our shadow that is reacting to the environment or to people. (Shadow - the subconscious or unconscious part of self; Persona - the conscious part of our self) old unexpressed emotions are held in the 'shadow' and stimulated into reaction or response by environmental stimuli. We are not simply our emotions they are really something we create and are not really who we truly are.

A place of limitation is fear based; simply let go; what comes up is your shadow; too much shadow let go too quickly often leads to breakdown or psychotic episodes.

The child from 0-8 years old is a sponge and they are a product of many things; genetic; ancestry; personality traits; etc. They start to personalise their world based on environmental influences and the people within their environment. The shadow is added to and suppressed for many children who experience fear reactions and trauma.

Children learn how to see their world mainly in early years from their parent/s. They start to polarise their world into good or bad or duality. Who they are becomes identified with this interpretation. By the time they are approximately 8 years old their ego structure is forming in a way they identify themselves as separate individuals with their own shadow material. Up to 8 years old children will still be very much at the affect of the flight and fight response depending on the pressures of the environment.

Children are not taught the skills to deal with the emotions that become buried in their shadow because of their personalised view of the world created through their parenting. Add parent separation to this developing stage and add confusion to the development of their world for a young child.

The very cells of the body are given instruction to react in a certain way; so the very physiology of the child is affected by the shadow and emotions of the child. Emotions have a chemical composition that when negative can lead to disease. Cells take on a specific vibration and transit a unique frequency; an electrical field or transmission which will affect other people in their space. It is like a magnet that attracts our experiences. So there are many things happening energetically. But we only see our perspective and this can be limited depending on our experiences in our environment.

The more negative our experiences are; add tiredness, stress and fear to the child's world; we create emotions in our shadow that can explode given the 'right' conditions. The child may have unexpressed anger, hurt or fear. They can internalise these which leads to sickness and after about 40years of age serious illness; or they can explode often in a powerful tantrum which causes pain, hurt and judgement but is not really understood by the parent. The parent often responds by trying to 'control' the behaviour of the child instead of teaching the child how to diffuse emotions safely. The reason for this is the parent does not understand the shadow or the suppressed emotions and interprets the tantrum as a person attack when this is not the case.

Teaching children not to build the 'charge' in a tantrum in the first place means they have very solid behaviour management techniques; coupled with love and care, good nutrition, sensible routines; and awareness of what is going on helping them to respond appropriately. Kids don't have tantrums just for the sake of it unless they have learnt at a later date to use this strategy to get what they want; even then there is a message in their tantrum about having their needs meet.

When we don't teach children how to firstly not create the 'charge' of a negative emotion; and secondly how to defuse a charged emotion safely we allow the child to grow into an adult who does not know how to respond to their emotions. They will suppress, explode, contain or express appropriately emotions depending on what they have been taught by the parent; and if they see then self as a Victim to their environment they will also see themselves as a victim to having their emotions.

As an adult when you are a victim to emotions you can have many different patterns surfacing. The environment you are in will stimulate what is unresolved in your shadow. It can bring up exhaustion or depression because the emotions are suppressed; it can cause explosions over those you love because you have not resolved your shadow. At the same time you are teaching your child how to deal with emotions and depending on their relationship with the parents, and their personality preferences; you are modelling the management of emotions to your child. As an adult when we empty more of our shadow through self development through life experiences or through counselling, courses etc we will start to minimise emotional charge. You are breaking old patterns and these patterns are not really who you are; they are simply learnt patterns; started as a child.

So how do we start to clear emotion or 'charge' of an emotion? You simply start to notice what you are feeling; e.g. 'I am feeling angry'; don't identify with it or personalise it; or tell a story about it. Simply state I release or clear this; I let it go and breathe deeply until the feeling is gone. Intense emotions happen because they are many incidents on top of each other that have not been discharged.

There are of course many other strategies to start to release pent up emotion! (Will write later on these.)

When we push the feeling away we add to 'charge' and can suppress it; it could lead to disease or at a later date a non-typical explosion of the emotion or dumping on someone.

So the choice is to release charge through awareness and don't identify with it; simply realise it is a 'charge' of emotion. Like a balloon you have blown up that now needs to be deflated before it explodes! Many depressed people have immobilised emotions turned on them selves; they have not been able to release the 'charge' because of beliefs systems about emotions. eg. men should not cry; bad people get angry etc. If we do not release charge even if it is in our subconscious or our shadow; we will keep attracting people to us who will eventually press our buttons for the charge to come up. The more we let go of pent up emotions (hopefully appropriately and not dumping) the more expansive we are to be able to do things in our lives.

When we stop JUDGING others we will often stop building charge. When we stop taking ourselves so seriously we will reduce emotions! People can become addicted to different emotions and will develop in their cell structure receptors that respond to this emotion and create these emotions on a consistent basis. Similar environmental stimuli will then trigger these emotional responses. When we have cleared our shadow of built up emotions we will find other peoples' emotions will not affect us but simply pass through and we will note or observe what is going on for the other person without judging, just being aware. The more you resist others and their point of view the more there is an emotional build up in the body. The more you identify with the emotion the more it will appear to be you; instead a messenger to tell you that you are coming up against a different point of view. The more attached you are to your point of view the more the emotions will charge. The body will react and you are part of the problem.

The child is learning how to relate to their world; they model their emotional responses on parents and/or personality needs and fears; they either learn to defuse emotions, control emotions often a suppression) or easily let go emotions. At the same time there is the normal flight/fight response going on for children and they need to learn to deal with this fear in an appropriate manner.

The child is also a sponge from 0-8yeras old and will often take on the unexpressed emotions or charge of the parent and reflect it back to the parent in a tantrum. They feel it intensely as they are so connected to the parent; separation into their own ego structure has generally naturally occurred around 8 years old unless the parent has extreme co-dependant issues with a child. If this is the case the child can still be acting out the parents emotions even when they are a teenager.

Not only the child but a parent needs to make friends with their 'demons'; fear based perceptions; they are only illusions any way. If you give attention to fear you will keep creating it; if you give attention to anger you will keep getting angry!

When we embrace the energy or 'charge'; through simply accepting it; this is the vehicle to transmute the 'charge'. The energy breaks off as we are not fearful of it, we need to let is go or it will be dumped on someone else who will need to deal with it. Emotion is energy; when we let go suppressed energy we may at first try to resist and get very tired and then start to yarn as it leaves us. Don't identify with it and make it yours through continual talking about the emotions and the story as it will increase the charge. See the charge as emotion that is separate to you; something that can simply be let go. Embracing an emotion simply mean acknowledging the emotion; not denying it; but making a choice to not add to it or give it more energy.

The more fear we have and the more we add to it we create this as our reality. Children when they are fearful; which is a natural part of growing up; can be taught  to let fear go or add to it! What the parent does when a child is fearful will greatly influence the child. Some children become very scared of many situations in life and this affects their self esteem and ability to become independent at appropriate ages.

Some of these thoughts taken from the work of Eric Dowsett.

I just want to see my boys with out the emotional baggage

Hi Sage

Love the name!, I will read all your comments & views another day, it's taken me a few hours to get here so i hope you'll forgive me if I am being impatient.

What do I do?

All I want is to see my boy's (twins boys 16 & another boy 13) with out the emotional baggage, guilt & betrayal she uses to influence their immature minds, how does one handle a person so afraid to communicate & so angry they become irrational, my boys have taken the easy option and avoid me to keep calm in their lives (i would too), so i don't hear or see them anymore.

I have asked the mother of my boys to attend mediation, she has refused & told the boys she wasn't playing my game!, she is very irrational & has been physically abusive. (which is why I chose to get out 16 yrs ago, (the pregnancy was an accident according to her), I invited her to live with me in Vic to give it a go but it took 2 weeks before the behavior started, she fell pregnant again I told her she had to go!

For the past 16yrs she has constantly denigrated me in front of the boys, I have only recently become aware of it's impact as I have recently moved back to SA & a bit more in contact with the boys. Recently she turned up the gas up on her smear campaign as i became a job seeker.

I know i am part of the problem, but what do i do about it!? How can i get her to see what she is doing is not the best for the boys!

Desperate Dad
As usual Sage nice post.

Hey Desperate Dad, I think sages posts aren't so much as to solve problems but give us the tools to help ourselves.

You can't do anything to convince your X that you are right. She has developed her truth and will stay true to it adopting more tales to establish the truth in her truth.

The easy option is not too avoid you the easy option is to do what mum wants, you've included yourself as an option for them and the reality is a little different, they know what will happen if they even mention you in their home let alone anything else, over time self presservation will determine the way they deal with issues that mother is not happy with, in the same breath they also learn from her how to deal with social problems, pre-determine by her influence, she is in control and does not want to relinquish this. The negative side of that is in a legal sense the boys can stand up and ask for no contact in court, or transfer the wish for this to the court. I'm not suggesting that you stop your attempt to gain contact with your kids but rather just make sure you know what your up against.

What you can do is be a dad when you see them, listen but don't judge, ask but don't try and fix and generally just help them and guide them to find their way.

Their mother is their mother and they have accepted what she is over the years, they know it's not ideal and given a chance they will learn another way of dealing with life, all you have to do is be there for them and show them your way by being you, by this I also mean you may have to change your habits to provide the good examples you profess to them and dealing with your own baggage on your time.

Stop thinking about changing her to change them and start thinking about what you can do to make a difference for them in  your environment.

Hope this makes some sense. D4E  
Dear D4E

I really appreciate the prompt reply & every thing you said was sobering & clear.

Our childrens issues are tied up with unresolved adult emotions, this much is clear, so if she is not even willing to try mediation & as you pointed out the possible court scenario that may unfold, then am I to assume I & the boys miss out & nothing can be done about it even though generally  it is known(or is it a surveyed stat) how a parent can manipulate a childs view and therefore impact on its right to have a healthy relationship with the other parent?!

What I was looking for was not a road into getting her to see or admit she is wrong or anything like that as you pointed out they seek agreement to support their story perhaps to justify their behavior, what I was wanting to know was is there a back door to these types of people or are they just guarded & protective against all access friendly or foe?

I was hoping a person with direct conflict resolution skills & experience such as Sage would be able to answer this, Id like to give it a go

Once again thanks D4E
No desperate dad it's not so much the case nothing can be done but more the point that it would take yourself and your boys to want this to happen and be strong enough to stand up together and voice this.

If it did go to court and the opinions or wants of the boys did not meet this criteria because of alignment or alienation and even manipulation the court would have to decide what best suits this situation and if orders to make the boys have visits would be in their best interests. Unfortunately in most cases the answer is negative, and this needs to be considered as an outcome, the reasons for this are varied but seem to come down to the pressure being forced upon the kids is not worth the outcome.

I'd be interested to see Sages view on things too finding a way to get through the guards would help so many.



I just want to see my Boy's AND with out the baggage!

D4E your comments leave me staggered yet at the core it seems very real & rational, I am grateful for the emotional & time saving insight!

I take on board all you have said & regret I get caught up in my righteousness & lose sight of the bigger picture in the game of life.

 It seems there are 2 matters to resolve
1 getting the Parent/s to resolve their conflict.
 2 Undoing the emotional damage to the kids caused by the Parent/s

Sage/D4E at this point i feel i have lost favor with my boys especially the younger one, their mum has asked me to stop calling them because it leaves them upset & if i call them on the mobile I usually get no answer & then an excuse, do you have any suggestions as to how i may regain contact with them without getting caught up in the emotional phase of it all, how do i deal with the rejection the hurt & the resentment, these emotions are confusing my clarity & judgment, all that keeps going round in my head is what the boys have told me & what i use to support my case of injustice, how does one keep mental order?……………

I only make the following point out of curiosity, can you enlighten me with an experiential view!
       It appears the systems approach is similar to the medical world where they seem to treat the symptom rather than the cause which leaves the problem festering away under the comfort of a system applied band aid, (IE "We act in favor of what's best for the KIDS") while the parents are left resenting each other & the Kids continue to be used as leverage.
       Are my views unrealistic, idealistic or naive, or is the system saying been there tried that & the band aid is the quickest fix for the sake of looking like their doing something!

Sage mentioned that we as a society don't have life lessons in Value's & emotions or the resolution skills to deal with conflict.

If there are conflict resolution skills we can apply then we know we can possibly stop the conflict, however if you have an unwilling party it is at this point there needs to be a person with exceptional skill to help gain the trust of the saboteur, (it is here the law/system seems to fail society in providing a much needed service at the cause of the problem not the symptom) in my case she clearly sees me as a threat, I can't even ask why as she won't/can't answer & now has the higher emotional ground & the support of the LAW!
Is it naive or arrogant to presume that the kids in their heart of hearts would want their mum & dad to get along even if their apart, from your experience, what is the reality?

 I feel my boys would love it even though it seems weird to conceive it! which is why I persist with seeking a resolution.

Far to often I hear fathers have left it in the too hard basket only to end up with an adult as a loyal friend instead of a loving child after many years of separation! I don't want my case to end up that way, my boy's deserve a loving father…..

D4E if all else fails is it possible to take the other parent to court purely on perjury or denigrating charges (or something like that) if so what would the likely out come be?O_o
The purpose would be to expose her in court, If all else fails & if i am going to be with out the boy's in my life they should know i have done what i can to help them be with me & they can hear for them selves an unedited, unbiased view of the facts.
She is now telling them i never wanted anything to do with them! i find it hard to ignore!!!!!!!

Dd

ps D4E what is your back ground apart from moderator?
Desperate Dad said
…Our childrens issues are tied up with unresolved adult emotions, this much is clear, so if she is not even willing to try mediation & as you pointed out the possible court scenario that may unfold, then am I to assume I & the boys miss out & nothing can be done about it even though generally
Sage is able to conduct mediations but the first step is to get the other party to a mediation. Mediation is compulsory as primary dispute resolution is to be conducted prior to any other steps. Contact the FRC (Family Relationship Centre) nearest to you or their hot line and ask to commence mediation to get contact. From there a range of options open to you. Do not waste any time but get on to it tomorrow. Let us know how you get on. The other parent can either participate or get left behind when you get to a Federal Magistrate who will take the pain out of the problem. There is much published on the site about mediation, look up parenting orders or orders by consent. Use the SEARCH button. There are at least hundreds of documents to review.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
Desperate Dad said
D4E your comments leave me staggered yet at the core it seems very real & rational, I am grateful for the emotional & time saving insight!

I take on board all you have said & regret I get caught up in my righteousness & lose sight of the bigger picture in the game of life.

 It seems there are 2 matters to resolve
1 getting the Parent/s to resolve their conflict.
 2 Undoing the emotional damage to the kids caused by the Parent/s

Sage/D4E at this point i feel i have lost favor with my boys especially the younger one, their mum has asked me to stop calling them because it leaves them upset & if i call them on the mobile I usually get no answer & then an excuse, do you have any suggestions as to how i may regain contact with them without getting caught up in the emotional phase of it all, how do i deal with the rejection the hurt & the resentment, these emotions are confusing my clarity & judgment, all that keeps going round in my head is what the boys have told me & what i use to support my case of injustice, how does one keep mental order?……………

I only make the following point out of curiosity, can you enlighten me with an experiential view!
       It appears the systems approach is similar to the medical world where they seem to treat the symptom rather than the cause which leaves the problem festering away under the comfort of a system applied band aid, (IE "We act in favor of what's best for the KIDS") while the parents are left resenting each other & the Kids continue to be used as leverage.
       Are my views unrealistic, idealistic or naive, or is the system saying been there tried that & the band aid is the quickest fix for the sake of looking like their doing something!

Sage mentioned that we as a society don't have life lessons in Value's & emotions or the resolution skills to deal with conflict.

If there are conflict resolution skills we can apply then we know we can possibly stop the conflict, however if you have an unwilling party it is at this point there needs to be a person with exceptional skill to help gain the trust of the saboteur, (it is here the law/system seems to fail society in providing a much needed service at the cause of the problem not the symptom) in my case she clearly sees me as a threat, I can't even ask why as she won't/can't answer & now has the higher emotional ground & the support of the LAW!
Is it naive or arrogant to presume that the kids in their heart of hearts would want their mum & dad to get along even if their apart, from your experience, what is the reality?

 I feel my boys would love it even though it seems weird to conceive it! which is why I persist with seeking a resolution.

Far to often I hear fathers have left it in the too hard basket only to end up with an adult as a loyal friend instead of a loving child after many years of separation! I don't want my case to end up that way, my boy's deserve a loving father…..

D4E if all else fails is it possible to take the other parent to court purely on perjury or denigrating charges (or something like that) if so what would the likely out come be?O_o
The purpose would be to expose her in court, If all else fails & if i am going to be with out the boy's in my life they should know i have done what i can to help them be with me & they can hear for them selves an unedited, unbiased view of the facts.
She is now telling them i never wanted anything to do with them! i find it hard to ignore!!!!!!!

Dd

ps D4E what is your back ground apart from moderator?
  Sage here! Been away! I would just like to ask a few more questions before I give an answer this evening. You state you separated about 16 years ago and you have two 16 year olds and one 13 year old. Could you let me know what has the contact been over these 16 years; how often; how has contact happened; what has the realtionship been like with the boys over this time? I need to know a little more history for me to be able to consider what approach may be of value. You could also buy the book Everyone Can Win by Cornelius and Faire; it is the basics for conflict resolution skills and is a beginning point. Will answer you in more detail when I know a little more of your history. Sage
Hi DD I can't answer reflective questions regarding how Sage means their post to come across or the values attached to it but rather my perception of a general situation that relies on personal dealings of my own situation and what I have supported others through, I'm not a moderator nor do I have any proffessional qualifications I participate mainly on the DID's forum but find FLWG an invaluable resource as parents progress through separation. I refer DID's here when they are ready to start looking at fighting back towards contact with their children.

S-SPCA has already mentioned mediation which is part of the legal or negotiation process aimed towards attempts to reduce conflict between mothers and fathers. In my opinion an important part of this is ones mind set and educated responses to mediation so it's always important to realise just what is involved.

Sage reflectively has ask some core questions that will help with strategy regarding how to re-connect with the kids and establish a positive relationship, so things are under way for you there.

I'll try to put into perspective what I have meant by my comments and support in this manner, though I do not get it right all the time and every little action that happens adjusts perception of situations o this usually takes time and personal self analysis, after all it's a conversation and not advice if you know what I mean.

Resolving conflict can be a life commitment and if there is a volatile past involved one very small thing can set an avalanche off which sees you shoveling up the piles right from the beginning, it is constant hard work that may see one party making all the effort and this can get demoralizing, if both parties are working at it forgiveness can be achieved.

Personally I haven't achieved this stage and though my daughters mother at times makes an effort she is also self destructive which means drama's may involve my daughter and myself unless she dislikes someone more than me ( not likely too often ). You just keep working doing what you can forming positive habits and sticking to them with the hope things change. You can not force change on the other person.

You can provide a better environment for your kids when they are with you and a lot of this comes down to having consistency, allowing and supporting their relationship with the other parent and communication, well the very basics but even this is a lot of hard work and you build even further from this as the relationship grows.

I'm really not sure that emotional damage can be undone but I do believe it's importance can be reduced in an environment to help the kids feel comfortable and adopt other methods to deal with the residuals from alienation and other such controls.

My phone calls to my daughter are usually about 10 seconds and it's not because she doesn't want to talk but rather her mother has conditioned her by making my daughters environment uncomfortable when I call, when her mother calls she does the reverse and uses guilt to extend the calls but I also provide an environment that supports these phone calls. What I had to do which pains me intensely because I want to know the highlights of my daughters time with her mother. I had to allow this to happen and decided to let my daughter know it's OK to hop on the phone say " I love you dad bye ". I recently ask her if she wants the phone calls to continue, she seemed generally shocked " Yes dad I do I want to talk to you " she doesn't talk that much but I guess it means she sees shes still in my heart.

Perhaps a variation of this may be acceptable for your boys, I know my daughter now accepts she is not forced by guilt or made to feel uncomfortable when I ring, unless of course she talks for more than a minuet then everyone in her mothers home tries to distract her. Just her world in that home is all.

My daughter does not do this to get at me or hurt me she is simply trying to reduce the negative feelings associated and forced on her by others. It still hurts and I still have doubts, I even sometimes get jealous about the time she talks on the phone to her mother but after overhearing the conversation I realize there is more than pacifying someone to communication.

It's a bit hard for the system to fix some of these problems and this is where answering some of Sages questions come into play. You will notice on both FLWG and DID's forums there is an encouragement to start following procedures as soon as possible, this helps establish constancy for the kids into an environment. Sometimes what happens is that one parent is pushed out and thinks they are doing the best thing by letting the X get on with her life as well as doing the right thing for the kids, years later they realize they made a mistake, by this time mum has control of the environment as well as the perceived truth which is usually negative if alienation is involved. Years down the track the kids have her perception of the truth and have adjusted to her control methods so are easily kept in place and soundly under her control. The children now in their teens hate the person they feel has deserted them and when that person wants to have time with them mum goes to work and further negative feeling that can cause conditions that put a child at harm come to the fore. This of course is an extreme situation but you can get the idea the authorities have to reduce extreme damage this may cause the child whilst also considering situation risks such as violence ( by the child ) or running from the alienated parent. I'm not saying it's right just that I can see it's not easy.

Things need to be addressed as soon as possible to allow all to flow into a new life of balance.

You can be the best negotiator in the world and still fail when a party refuses to negotiate. I think it's a left over product of the 70's social experiment that made mothers all powerful. Children were possessions and some mums still feel that way, moves are underway to change this but with much resistance, once we reach 50/50 as the norm things will improve as both parents will see they are equal and the children are not possessions but investments that need both of them.

When a child has been controlled and brainwashed they will adopt to what they have been shown as normal, so whilst in that environment they will keep the same or similar beliefs to keep the peace if not as their own belief. Things change for them when they leave the nest and not so much influence or control is born on them, this is when many fathers are sought out and go through varying emotional experiences, many father stuff this up by trying to defend themselves rather than build a relationship.

You have to keep trying for your sake and if you can accomplish it the boys will gain from it in some ways and suffer in other but what needs to be seen is the positive effect dads have on their kids it just takes kid gloves and a lot of hard work.

I've been there at the beginning wanting to prove my innocence and value as a father in court, wanting her to admit to the world just what a nasty piece of work she is, but this is just self satisfying dribble. Luckily I had some good mentors who steered me gently and at times harshly away from such thoughts, after all all I wanted was for her to suffer the truth and even if she had admitted it she would have said it was forced or she lied. It's better served I move on and create an environment where this sort of behavior does not exist for my daughter, well at least when she's with me.

In most part it is not possible to initiate civil action and FLC seldom act on these things, it takes a lot of real bad things to get there so I hope you don't have that opportunity.

Try not be too concerned as to what she tells them but protect what you tell them making sure you do not find yourself doing what she is doing. Try something simple let them know occassionally " I've always loved you " if they have questions they will ask just explain honestly and try not to put their mum down.

Sorry for the long post I hope this makes some sense for you, let me know if you feel I'm not understanding you or there is something that needs clarification.

Regards D4E              
My Last post was pulled, could someone please return it so i may correct it & continue with my thread.

My apologies for the poor expression chosen.

Dd
I have read some posts by Sage and I must say what a great benefit I found for me to "self help" and understand behavioural/life issues raised in my situation. D4E your last post (1/9/09) is a good 1 & was inline with my situation & you explained it better than i ever could.
DD I am in a simular boat to you,having to deal with a MOMC that lives in a different state, limited contact & prison like restrictions with the child that uses emotion to get her own way, when the MOMC is influenced by her mother in the mediation process(mother was speaking & telling MOMC what to do therefore the mediator cancelled further mediation) Thinking what can I do be involved with my child to grow up as a well adjusted human being as possible. Some of my comments in previous posts have been wayward, that i apologise for. My thought process was exactly like D4E about who is right & who is wrong & proving it to those around me now & in the future.
What I have come up with is simple, love your kids as must as possible, try mediation & see how you go,if you can get structure in place for contact (phone calls,etc) go for it, then put them in writting & lodge them with FLC. I went & got legal advice recently, explained my situation & recieved valuable input in the best way to handle the situation. But one thing that was brought up is that of the childs wants & needs. I have come to terms with the fact that as much as I try to gain access for my daughter to have contact with me, she may ultimately, of her own choice, not want contact with me &/or grand parents again, & if that is the case, so be it. But if she ever comes to my door at a last date, she will never be turned away. Im guessing that is the price of being a parent, being forgiving & undestanding…  
Regards P2P

Moderator Note
What is an 'MOMC'? apart from a rude abbreviation. MOMC is not in the sites Glossary.
MOMC is mother of my child? Such abbreviations are not acceptable on this site.

If an abbreviation must be used, please advise at the first usage what it is in full.

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