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Same-sex marriage; the real cost

This article is for those people who feel mostly indifferent about the topic

In principle a lot of us might feel supportive about this as long as it doesn't impact us in any way.

Have a read of this article as most small changes can have devastating effects in the future and I guess this perspective take me off the fence on this topic.

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Same-sex marriage; the real cost
Impact on "us" ?  And "devastating" ? Sounds like a religious right wing rant to me.  Totally unreferenced garbage, florid homophobia or homo-hate-o-phobia ??? Is there such a word?
When other adult's right to marry the partner of their choice (or gender) is finally recognised in this country, I guess the impact that will be interesting to watch is that in the Family Court system. Relationships fail whatever your orientation.
Fairgo said
Have a read of this article as most small changes can have devastating effects in the future …

I believe people may have been saying things like before gender discrimination was addressed decades ago allowing woman to vote.

Last edit: by 4mydaughter


4MYDAUGHTER
Just had a read, the whole paper is a piece of poppycock. Not one reference to a study, let alone a legitimate study.

The only reason I could see that this paper has taken you off the fence is because the paper has shown you the discrimination and propaganda that some people will display and now you are fully in support of gay marriage because you agree that they are entitled to the same opportunities as every other person.  

Thank you for posting this paper and showing your support for gay marriage even when narrow minded people write papers like this. You should be commended for pushing the fight for equal rights for gay and lesbian couples and standing up to the nay sayers.

Kudos

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas
I find Julia Gillard's stance on same-sex marriage bizarre.

You would think that the first FEMALE Prime Minister of Australia - who is also lawyer by trade - would recognise gender discrimination and act to eliminate it!

Apparently she must think gender discrimination is OK.

She's seems devoid of any values.


4MYDAUGHTER
Yes who would have thought of the consequences despite the benefits of no fault divorce, 20 years of free education, the welfare state etc…

References can be found at the author's website MassResistance

Re my stance, I believe that marriage is all about the children who should have a mother and a father.

Gays can make fun of and bash Christianity (the basis of our value system) all they like, but when the tidal wave growth of Muslim families hits in the next generation or so, I'm not sure whether gays will even try to treat them the same way.
In a few words, I do not believe it is appropriate to be bringing religious ideologies into this forum.

You can not just say that Christianity is the basis of our value system, I know for a fact there are many on this site from other religions whose views and perspectives are just as important in establishing Australia's 'value system'. Australia's value system is based on giving people a fair go and sticking up for your mates regardless.

I have looked at the site you refer to, perhaps Massachusetts law is more tolerant of a site which breeds disrepect for our fellow humans.

Fairgo I do have to say I am very disappointed.

Australia is a land where we give a fair go to every man woman and child regardless of beliefs, sexual orientation or sex. Will you ever see me marching proudly at the next Mardi Gras, nope, but will i support their right to march proudly? Yep! you can count on it.

You chose your name on FLWG so that people would give you a FAIRGO well its time for you to stand up. Time for you to stand up and give other people a fair go and not push some dire tripe from Massachusetts of all places!

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas
Sorry you are disappointed LP.

I only made the comment re Christianity as fjb61 made the initial religious reference.

What you are referring to, "giving people a fair go and sticking up for your mates regardless", is forgiveness and turning the other cheek which are two very strong Christian values and hard for all to enact, even those that call themselves followers of he faith. Remember the Church of England came with the colonists.

The guy claims to be a Jew - what more can I say? It's awkward. I do believe our interpretation (and culture) of these values is slightly different to the North Americans, however what I have posted is an example of the snowballing effects from a fairly innocent law change, and we have had some issues re parents names etc…. on birth certificates etc…..

The plight of fathers and men are a direct result of the profeminst perspective that clearly does not follow Christian or fairgo values because they are anti-male.

I have been fairly silent on FLWG for the last few months as I have moved into a different work direction. I'm now in advocacy for the disadvantaged and the article came my way so I thought I should post it for reactions. When working with the disadvantaged and their families, Family Law is completely redundant as they just do what the system tells them, no questions. Women are housed if they have children. Men are homeless if they break up with their women. Goal is often a haven for them.

I agree re margi grass etc.. and people can do what they like behind closed doors, but when it effects the life I want to live and that of my children, sometimes I have to do something about it.

For example last year my kids school wanted to trial a child protection programme imported from overseas. We went to the information sessions to see the proposal and the community strongly objected to it as the materials they were wanting to expose our kids to were deemed child abuse by our standards.

All I am saying is that we should carefully consider the sort of world we will end up with if we support same sex marriage laws. Are we supporting the profeminists if we support these changes?

I chose my name on FLWG to promote the ideal that everyone deserves a fairgo. I have never expected to be treated the same way and have sometimes had to eat my words as well as put up with criticism.

You are entitled to think what I posted is dire-tripe but that does not change my opinion of you and the good work you do on here.
Fairgo said
Re my stance, I believe that marriage is all about the children who should have a mother and a father.

So only couples seeking to have children can get married?


In any event - its nice to have the choice, huh?

4MYDAUGHTER
When my son was in kindergarten they had a tub of books and each week the children picked a book to take home and have read to them.  My son once brought home a book called "I have two dads" or something like that and it was about a same sex couple and their family.  Plenty of other kids took that book home too.

Fast forward several years and there is now a student at my son's school whose parents are lesbians.  The kids couldn't care less.  It is the other parents who gossip about it.

Exposing children to concepts of homosexuality along with concepts of heterosexuality normalises individual differences and makes for a more tolerant world.  It all depends on how it is portrayed.
Same sex relationships don't bother me. My best friend is a lesbian and my kids and I lived with her and her partner for 4 years when they were young and we still spend a lot of time with her. My kids think same sex relationships are just part of life & no big deal.

I do think having things like school 'gay days' is taking things a bit far though. If schools have gay day then isn't discriminatory not to have a straight day?  Why not just have a family day..where every family (irrespective of sexual preference) is acknowledged.
4MD - I should have said marriage is for a man and women who intend to create a family together.

That's right the kids don't think anything of it and will not until they are possibly challenged later in life where they will have seen where history was and that a number of seemingly insignificant incremental changes that occurred over time has made a significant change to their society and culture that they are not happy about.

Having two dads or mums is no big deal as there are plenty of blended or second families out there anyway.

I'm all for tolerance and education but not at the significant loss of our identity and status. This is a main issue of Fathers rights groups and I believe supporting gay marriage will continue to erode the status of fathers including mothers.

How would biological mothers feel if they were to be referred to as Parent 1 or Parent 2 or not at all on the birth certificate because biology or parentage is no longer valued?

The other side of the coin is that do gays really want to be subject to the family law act through marriage?

Perhaps they should be able to declare a de facto relationship to start with to give them a taste of the law and consequences? They might think twice when they break up and have to fight out a property settlement.


Marriage is not about having children. A sex act is and you definately do not need a marriage certificate.
Marriage is about love and commitment to another person who you may get to spend up to 70 years with.
People make good parents to children and I for 1 do not believe that you need a male and a female to be a good parent.
Same sex couples can be as committed and loving as different sex couples. Love and commitment can be between anyone.
The sooner our country stops discrimination the better.
AND YES same sex couples would like to have the SAME laws apply to them as YOU Fairgo.
Perhaps they should be able to declare a de facto relationship to start with to give them a taste of the law and consequences? They might think twice when they break up and have to fight out a property settlement.
Fairgo - Alot of same sex couples have already had experiences of property settlement and child related issues. Same sex couples are already covered under the family law Act in relation to defacto relationships and property settlement. There has been cases where same sex couples have had to have the family court make decisions in relation to children as well. Same sex couples who adopt children are also liable under the Child Support Act…pretty sure the majority would have an understanding of the legal consequences of marriage if they could choose to go down path.
I said marriage is about a man and woman coming together to create a family - not just have children. This could mean bringing brothers sisters and parents together adoption of children, bringing existing biological or step-children together and yes good old fashioned conception.

I don't have a problem if gays want to be recognised in a marriage-like union, as long as it is not called marriage. This is one social and cultural tradition I don't wish to see watered down.

Thanks for the info Frenzy. Most gay friends I have don't or haven't bothered with children for various reasons. Holding their relationship together and creating their lifestyle seems to take all their energy.
Well as a lesbian I feel very sad that I'm paying the price for the laws that have been made equal (my drug-addict ex who is the non-birth mother has shared care of our son), but I cannot marry my gorgeous partner because of the laws that aren't equal. I pay plenty of tax, but am a 2nd class citizen. My conservative family and that of my partner are very disappointed that we can't get married as it's very important to them, not just us.

Fairgo - what is this "lifestyle" that takes so much energy? Because my "lifestyle" is that of an employed, partnered mother in a blended family. It's pretty condescending to use the word "lifestyle" about being gay. It's a sexual orientation. Not a lifestyle.
Have to agree with Circe on this one!

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas
The 'Sex Discrimination Commissioner' needs to get off her a**s and take action against the Marriage Act that discriminates on the basis of the gender of the parties in the relationship.

4MYDAUGHTER
4MD present her with the necessary evidence and she probably would.

BD Eye Investigations
www.bdeyeinvestigations.com
Specialist Family Law and COA Investigators.
There is a gay couple in Qld that have had a son under the recent surrogacy laws. On bubs birth certificate one is listed as the father, the other as the parent. If they can both be listed on a child birth certificate and be legal parents together, why can't they legally get married.
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