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Why Relocate

In A couple of cases  I have seen when the mother has the main contact with the kids, is that when they decide to move it doesn't seem to be motivated by work or such but seems to be motivated by following the new partner, be it several hours or days. I seen a case on the net where the judge ordered in favor of the mother, giving reason that as long as she was happy she would be able to care more responsibly to the children's needs. it was several months ago and i don't remember where i seen it but it was interesting considering that the new partner was someone she had met on an internet dating site, and what about a situation where a couple have moved following work and children are born far from where the family are but one decides that they are staying where they are. how would that work in relation to other family members wanting to have contact with the children (eg. the current mining boom)  

If you don't talk about it, how can anyone help you move forward!
It all depends on what you consider other family members imadad.

When my X moved away and took my daughter there was no consideration given at all to my side of the family yet they were close by. Situation reversed I would have put up with my daughters mothers side of the family visiting because this would be good for my daughter.

People move their families all the time whilst not putting too much emphasis on extended family and some parents who move feel this is the best thing for them, perhaps an escape.

Others may do this with the intension of destroying the other parent or the other parents contact with the kids. And another typical one is because the family dynamics has now changed and the kids have a new dad. Old dads family are now insignificant.

To see my daughter my mother had to travel the distance to see her when at my home or I could afford to travel to her.

She received no consideration but you just can't make people humane so they will do what they do.

 

By others I mean grandparents, uncles and aunties. I was under the impression these days that direct family members  like grandparents could apply to the courts for contact as well, I maybe wrong. and I do encourage my kids also To talk about their family on the mums side even though they were not the best of people when the separation happened, but as the kids and I know them it makes good conversation. I know a young man (early teens) who is now spending more time with his mums family and related family all because of being denied contact with them from a very young age by the father(not all fathers are considerate) but I would like to think that by having more even and uninhibited time with our children they don't have to wait till they reach adulthood to know who their big family are. 

If you don't talk about it, how can anyone help you move forward!
Although there is an ability to make an application through the courts this is not always practical. I have friends who fought for a long time to remain friends with their sons X just to see the grand daughter, at first this was simply as baby sitters and they put up with a lot but they managed to maintain good contact with the child but it's been up and down all the way and it was hard on their son.

It took me three to four years to get orders in place for one reason or another and during that time my mother was not welcome at my X's place because of the shame my X felt and so my daughter suffered now that a relationship has been allowed to grow unhindered by alienation she has finally bonded with her gran rather well.

All my rellies live a distance away so we see them 3/4 times a year.

Many of the things I tried to mediate were dismissed as trivial, things such as ensuring booster seats, keeping the child away from cigarette smoke and allowing 2 hours a fortnight for her to see her gran. This was in the time when mediation was another form of decisive control used to further reduce your need in the family unit.

I would suggest that even now these are things that are considered trivial and easy for the other party to remove. The question of " what makes them important " is less of a concern than " Your being trivial " if you try to push the issue.

Although I could be far from the mark and those who have witnessed such situations would be far better to respond as my experiences are a few years old and those who I communicate with now are finding hard enough just to have decent time for themselves.

Much of what my daughters mother does is to reduce the chance those she knows will talk to each other and then relate what she has said amongst themselves .

This in itself says enough.
I'm a custodial parent and I see this issue from a different point of view. It's unbelievable to me that I would be prohibited by a court from moving away if I want to. Do I not have any freedom as a human being anymore? Meanwhile, his father can move away from our son if he feels like it. Even if I wanted to move away with a new partner and not for work reasons, why not? My ex is moving on, why can't I try and find happiness? Along with all the restrictions being a single mum places on finding a new partner, I guess I can only look for someone who lives in my area and has no plans of ever moving.
singlemum said
I'm a custodial parent and I see this issue from a different point of view. It's unbelievable to me that I would be prohibited by a court from moving away if I want to. Do I not have any freedom as a human being anymore? Meanwhile, his father can move away from our son if he feels like it. Even if I wanted to move away with a new partner and not for work reasons, why not? My ex is moving on, why can't I try and find happiness? Along with all the restrictions being a single mum places on finding a new partner, I guess I can only look for someone who lives in my area and has no plans of ever moving.

As I understand it, if the courts were to stop anybody relocating, it would be the child and would be for the child. That is they would make and I believe have made, orders that the child remain in a locality so as to protect the child from the abuse of having their humane right to know and be cared for by the other parent taken away. I believe that the courts fully understand that they cannot stop a person relocating. You also may well have the option to let the other parent be the lives with parent, it would appear that would be the solution to so many of your woes.
Okay everyone - are there cold hard facts and statistics on relocations?
I'm in the process of asking the X to sign a parenting plan that increases his level of care due to my planned relocation, but changes the access to blocks of time from 1 night a fortnight.
Anyone know of cases similar or info that is relevant? All the cases I have read reduce the other parents time.
Any help appreciated  :)

"Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it."
Bill Cosby
 :thumbs:
Tulip said
Okay everyone - are there cold hard facts and statistics on relocations?
I'm in the process of asking the X to sign a parenting plan that increases his level of care due to my planned relocation, but changes the access to blocks of time from 1 night a fortnight.
Anyone know of cases similar or info that is relevant? All the cases I have read reduce the other parents time.
Any help appreciated  :)
 

Sounds like you keep in touch with singlemum et al! What organisation are you with?



:o

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas. 
Hi monteverdi

I'm not with any organisation, but I've spent the last two months reading everything I can on relocation *sigh* my eyes now look like this: [].[]

The biggest thing I am finding is a lack of cases where the mother (moi) is offering extra time for the father because the kids are going to be moved away. It's not a lot extra, but he only has 8% at this point, so I kinda feel like I'm throwing him a bone  :lol:

Am I unusual in doing this, or does anyone know where I can find similar cases?

I'm guessing the 'organisation' question is to weed out the lurking beady eyes? lol

"Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it."
Bill Cosby
 :thumbs:

Following me again are we???

MikeT said
You also may well have the option to let the other parent be the lives with parent, it would appear that would be the solution to so many of your woes.
What you said was not very well written but what i'm gathering is that you're saying I should let my son live with the other parent? Oh yeah that would work except for the fact that he doesn't want custody and never has and didn't even bother seeing his son for the last 5 months! The solution to "all my woes" would be that his father meet his responsibilities including child support. I am getting really sick and tired of you attacking everything I say on this forum! STOP FOLLOWING ME AROUND THE FORUM!

If i'm all over this forum "like a rash" as one of your friends put it, then so are you my friend and for what reason, I don't know. Perhaps you sympathise with a deadbeat like my ex. Perhaps you are one yourself.
The reality is, there will never be a consensus on relocation. We all have, and are entitled to, our opinions which are typically based on our personal experience.
For myself, I uphold my right to relocate. This will be to an area with employment opportunities in my field and lower-cost housing. It's not a decision that myself and my partner have made lightly - or quickly.
The reality for us is that we cannot find work where we are which means we are reliant on Centrelink payments. It's not living, it's existing, and we want to provide more for our family. Add to that the possibility of our rental accommodation being sold and needing to move to where we can afford anyway.
Yes, there will be difficulties and challenges but isn't that what a lot of life is?
We are trying to go about our relocation in a way that is respectful to my X.

"Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it."
Bill Cosby
 :thumbs:
singlemum said
MikeT said
You also may well have the option to let the other parent be the lives with parent, it would appear that would be the solution to so many of your woes.
What you said was not very well written but what i'm gathering is that you're saying I should let my son live with the other parent? Oh yeah that would work except for the fact that he doesn't want custody and never has and didn't even bother seeing his son for the last 5 months! The solution to "all my woes" would be that his father meet his responsibilities including child support. I am getting really sick and tired of you attacking everything I say on this forum! STOP FOLLOWING ME AROUND THE FORUM!

If i'm all over this forum "like a rash" as one of your friends put it, then so are you my friend and for what reason, I don't know. Perhaps you sympathise with a deadbeat like my ex. Perhaps you are one yourself.

singlemum
MikeT is over the forums for good reason, he is one of the site moderators.

You have come to this site and selectively read through and picked various forums and topics (some which have been inactive for 12 months) in an apparent attempt to create disruption, yet do not appear to have read or heeded any of my guidance posts.

You appear to want to argue and nit pick with some very experienced people as if you have a right to create disruption rather than engage in serious debate.

Using terms like 'deadbeat' is also derogatory and profane religious euphemisms are NOT acceptable  READ THE SITE RULES AGAIN PLEASE

I have already received 3 moderator complaints and 4 member complaints about your posts and general attitude. This is the level at which you can be banned.

COOL IT PLEASE AND THINK BEFORE YOU POST

Any more posts that attempt to create unreasonable discussion will be trashed, dumped into Hyde Park Corner or moved to Devils Advocate forums. Any more posts that overstep the mark and I will ban you.

 Senior Site Moderator and Administrator
singlemum said
What you said was not very well written but what I'm gathering is that you're saying I should let my son live with the other parent?

Well it's was written in words so that you sort of got the gist, but yes your attempt to try to deride what I have written word has duly been noted and discarded, deservedly so. Again perhaps the best thing you can do, if all you can see to do is try to find fault in others, is too keep yourself to yourself. However I strongly suspect that you will act in a way that will provoke others to act in defence of those who you so very willingly abuse and attack.

Oh and no, what you gather is not at all what was said. Option does not equate to should, the closer word is could. I have previously mentioned that the father could well be in fear of what appears to be a controlling attitude, which you further show as being likely by trying to command me to do something, in a place where you do not have the right to command anyone to do anything. You do however have the power to control yourself and if you do not like the results of your actions then you can use that power to ensure such results do not happen. Thus, due to this apparent controlling nature, the benefits of the child being in the other parents custody appear to be increasing, perhaps the benefits will reach the stage where "should" is decided upon.
Hey Tulip although a change could be perceived in your situation beneficial it does not mean your childs father will see the same benefits and there lies the problem.

He may be of the opinion the same opportunities are available where you are living and thus it becomes a difference of opinion.

If negotiations are positive and an agreement is reached that suits both parents then great this is what mediation is about but a routine for a child on a regular basis may be more important to the father and the carrot of more time may not be enough to change their mind, good parents try to make decisions with the best interest of their children in mind and relocating is always a hard thing to justify in this sense and should never be considered a right that is being forced onto the child, I doubt you would move and leave your child behind in her fathers care because you want to move.

In saying this I'm sure you have thought of many aspects of what change would mean to you over a period of time and you do come up with some very positive aspects of those thoughts trouble is in many cases most of this would have been done before consulting your X partner who may well have been surprised and shocked as would be expected.

Keep trying to negotiate but remember there have been a few cases of late where parent have been ordered to move back to the area they moved from.

All best D4E
D4E said
Hey Tulip although a change could be perceived in your situation beneficial it does not mean your childs father will see the same benefits and there lies the problem.

He may be of the opinion the same opportunities are available where you are living and thus it becomes a difference of opinion.

If negotiations are positive and an agreement is reached that suits both parents then great this is what mediation is about but a routine for a child on a regular basis may be more important to the father and the carrot of more time may not be enough to change their mind, good parents try to make decisions with the best interest of their children in mind and relocating is always a hard thing to justify in this sense and should never be considered a right that is being forced onto the child, I doubt you would move and leave your child behind in her fathers care because you want to move.

In saying this I'm sure you have thought of many aspects of what change would mean to you over a period of time and you do come up with some very positive aspects of those thoughts trouble is in many cases most of this would have been done before consulting your X partner who may well have been surprised and shocked as would be expected.

Keep trying to negotiate but remember there have been a few cases of late where parent have been ordered to move back to the area they moved from.

All best D4E

Hi D4E
You make some very valid points, and I agree with what you are saying.
In a perfect world all parents would equally share the care and responsibilty of their children. Unfortunately, we as humans just aint perfect.

My partner and I have had to very carefully weigh up the pros and cons of moving to another area, the biggest of the cons being the change in nature of the kids time with their dad. We have also kept my X informed through out the process of making our decision, and he knew before the kids did. Our relocation hasn't happened yet and is still some months away as we felt it best to have all the details settled first. Obviously we know where we want to go, and have been in contact with schools, real estate agents, local council, etc for information on where we would like to live and the facilities there.

Anyway, my X has an appointment with his solicitor shortly (at my request) to go over the proposed parenting plan I had drawn up. I am envisioning a bit of 'back and forth' as we nut out the final details. Apart from the change in when he has care of the kids, the only other difference to the status quo will be an expectation of shared responsibility for the kids - something he has not had or tried to have in the past. I want his input and agreement in decisions, instead of everything being thrown onto my shoulders  :dry:

D4E, you are very right in doubting I would move without the kids - Hell to the NO! And if we cannot negotiate a consensus and need to have the court system make that decision for us, I will abide by the courts ruling whatever that may be. Obviously I'm not giving specifics in a forum that Google ranks very highly in family law searches, but my legal advice is that a court would be open to our relocation.

But, again, parents agreeing between themselves is the ideal situation.

Oh, and thanks for the reply D4E!  :P

"Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it."
Bill Cosby
 :thumbs:
Have you approached mediation yet Tulip ?

If your X happens to agree with your suggestion then it may be an economical way to have the parenting plan drafted into orders.

It's mainly those cases that are adversarial that go further and being adversarial does not take both parties for everything to go south. You are doing what you can and I'm sure this will help with the final outcome.

I do hope all parties feel they are part of the decision making in the end, as this will secure what is best for the kids, best of luck with it all.

D4E

  
Hi again D4E
 ;) I've taken care of that too - yup, I'm a big believer in being prepared  :lol:

Ta  :)

"Decide that you want it more than you are afraid of it."
Bill Cosby
 :thumbs:
I note that in all of this the common theme again, is "should the relocating custodial parent be allowed to relocate?"….

Is there any reason why the non-custodial parent cannot move to be closer? And any reason why they can't be ordered to follow the custodial parent (except in DV cases), just as custodial parents are ordered to remain near the non-custodial parent?

I find this amazing (and discriminatory against the custodial parent, by not allowing this parent to order their life as best they can to provide for their child, even though they have been awarded primary care) - particularly if the custodial parent is moving to improve the economic status of the main supporting family - thereby enhancing the child's welfare - which surely is in the best interests of the child? Extended family are important yes but many families worldwide live miles, states, countries and continents apart.
So Wiccapixi what happens in the following case. Parents seperate when child is 18 months old. Initially dad has contact every second weekend. Dad meets someone and eventually moves in. Eventually dad has contact with child every second weekend for three nights and the alternate weekend for one night. This is worked out and agreed to via mediation. Dad marries partner. Two weeks after dad advises mum that he has remarried (ie two weeks after wedding), mum advises that things are not working and she wants mediation. A month after this she tells dad that the reason for mediation is because she is moving and taking child with her to live with her new boyfriend. The move is to a rural mining area, 10 hours drive away from dad (and capital city). Mum does not have job to go, just the boyfriend to live with. All extended family (on both sides) are in the capital city. Mum moves just before child turns five, and starts school. So contact then becomes during school holidays only. Mum has moved to a location where the only person the child knows is her, and the only person she knows is the boyfriend. Relationship was conducted mainly whilst child in care of dad. Mum and boyfriend never lived together before move, and had been in relationship for less than six months.

In your opinion, you are stating that the dad has to move. So what happens to his wife? What happens to her children and family. Does she have to leave them behind? What will the dad do for employment? What will the mother do? Does she go with her husband (the dad) or does she stay behind in the capital city with her children?

Please note that in this case, no one has primary care (court or consent ordered), it has all been verbal. So what is your decsion?
Hi Andykay,

Sorry to hear that, I certainly was not stating that the non-custodial parent has to move, I am certainly no expert on this issue, and was merely voicing a question which has concerned me with relation to the relocation issue.

However, as you as asked for my opinion….

In the scenario you ave described, I personally, feel that that is unfair to the child in question. Also the mother reacting like that to news of the marriage AFTER it has occurred can explain but not excuse her initial reaction.

If the mother had consensual primary care in this case, then she would be (in my opinion) justified in making a move of this nature after - and only after - it has been AGREED by the other parent, or ordered by the court.

Personally in this particular instance, without any further details, I would apply to the courts, as to me it seems as though the move has been made with little thought for the child in question.

Had the move been more planned and the relationship more long term, and in particular the relationship between the child and new partner congenial and mutual then perhaps it may have been easier to bear, and means for extra communication in place of physical contact could have been arranged.
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