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Parental Alienation: The system. (2 solicitors, 2 barristers & $70K later) has so far let me down

Parental Alienation Syndrome is what the child suffers in 'choosing to align' with their mental abuser

I have read much about PA, and also PAS (not officially a syndrome).

I talked/emailed till I wasblue in the face to my 2nd solicitor to get her to 'advocate for me' in the way I wanted and needed (for the mental & emotional abuse). She's sacked now and I'm self represented again 2 years on.

At the time of the 1st solicitor I had no idea of the intense paranoid attitude he was developing. It (PA/PAS)is touted as a thing that (mostly) happens to men by angry women (Dr R.Gardner). But this is NOT GENDER BASED from my experience. There are controlling narcissistic men AND woman out there able to sleep at night whilst using their children as pawns against their ex. And yes, I do believe this is Child Abuse.

I lost my now 9 year old daughter 1 1/2 yrs ago after immense 'physical rampage tantrums' against me (yes, assault) and almost lost my 4 year old recently too (as she began to learn how to please daddy by talking badly about mummy).

I'm looking for contact with the 'alienated ones' out there who may be 'out the other side' to some degree.  Are there any?Is it possible?

The only thing saving my 4 year old is that she made sexual abuse allegationsthis yearand it's been ruled to cease contact and give only supervised contact. And yes, of course, he's accusing me of 'creating the whole thing'. Part of what she'alleged' was recorded (thankfully) secretly. There's no way that would even enter my mind.

I have supported their relationship throughout; evenwith my other daughter, even when she screamed and yelled and hit out at me. It would be like cutting off their limb to sabatage their 'rightful relationship' with their father. Thankfully they're only suffering 'one-way alienation'.

All Target Parents of Alienation, lets Unite to make an impact where it's needed for our lost children ..  http://bringingpeace2alienatedchildren.blogspot.com/
Hi vipashana it sounds like you are looking more for emotional support rather than legal, I partake on the DID's forum which also has a MID's section ( Mums in Distress ) there are people there who can listen and may be able to help in some ways.

Part of the problem with P.A.S. in Australia is as you suggested it is not recognised and therefore becomes a more academic discussion as to personal relevance, many other tags have been labelled to bad parenting behavior and they exist through gender as well as what could be considered intact or healthy families.

Because of this alignment by all and sunder to what they instinctively associate with due to the behavior of the childrens other parent it can effect they way we parent defensively so in working out some of the issues there has to be a great deal of self analyses and perhaps the change of some of our own habits to establish a better environment for our children, even when we believe we are not part of the problem we very much are.

I am not going to comment on the situation regarding allegations of abuse as in time it will be assessed by the authorities.

I will say that if a nine year old child assaults a parent the situation will be more complex than Parent Alienation.

Being a dad who has been exposed to varying forms and attempts of alienation and I may say I am still a victim and probably will be for the rest of my life I can say that managing alienation is a full time job that never lets up, mind you it does lessen when her mother has other drama's to contend with but it's back again there is no out even if orders are in place and the kids are dealing with it and balanced.

I stopped fighting it a long time ago and took on the approach of damage control to try and reduce the effects on my daughter though needless to say as one situation is eliminated and accepted a new one is forced upon me.

      
Hey, D4E.. thanks for you comments.  I am only just learning how to use this, I haven't used a forum before.

I can surely understand your comments re: 'being part of the problem'.  There's no doubt, of course.. I have learnt alot over the 2 years since this began.

In my situation, my daughter had been 'worked on' a few years more subtley prior to me even leaving ( I only now can see it).. so she was very caught up in his manipulation already without my knowing.. hence when I was on the full throttle end of his game plan, and my NOT alienating and denigrating her father (purposely), I believe she held even that against me.. perhaps it was her seeing it as a weakness, since he's all about being big and tough and breaking the law (ripping red belly black snakes in half with his 'hands', describing it to her, then showing her a video of it).. this is further reason for her to align with the 'seemingly' stronger one.  I certainly didn't act scared in front of her, I was protective when the girls were scared when he was angry and yelling at me/us, but I 'never bit back'.

Anyway.. I do have a DV counsellor, I have close supportive friends to 'off load' to.. but I do need 'legal' help.. but 'what' I know not.  We have been with the Fed Mag Court for all this time and only just transferred to Fam Crt, first mention next month.. (and doing a Unifam parenting course 'keeping contact' which hasn't begun, he's going as slow as possible with this).  There is SO MUCH information in affidavits already.. nobody wants to read the file.. he has the best sweet talking charming story telling way…

you say 'in time it will be assessed by the authorities'.. Nope.  JIRT returned an 'unsubstantiated' stamp (very rare for 4 yr olds to disclose in interviews).. so that means J__sh_t to me.  But then Doc's closed the files .. not enough resources to follow up the (recommended by JIRT) 'Specialist Assessment'.  (I do have an internal complaint being finally looked at now..)

"If a nine year old assaults a parent the situation will be more complex than PA".. Not sure what you mean here?

Thanks

All Target Parents of Alienation, lets Unite to make an impact where it's needed for our lost children ..  http://bringingpeace2alienatedchildren.blogspot.com/
It would help to know specifically what legal help you need so those who pass their well honed knowledge on can help.

My personal knowledge of the law is limited so I try to help deal with other avenues of support, sometimes this means pulling things apart to get to something that works and it can take time.

When we go through a break up more than often one party is already in control and emotionally geared fro the separation, the average situation has one party knowing a year or more before they will not stay in the relationship, they go through all of the emotional reasonings whilst still in the relationship and will lie about their feelings so the relationship continues pretty much as normal. The other person may pick up on certain aspects of what is going on but after much denial by the other person they tend to deny their feelings.

This is also a time where the party intent on separation can work on the kids, the manipulation is often unintensional in the beginning as the children can be used as a support mechanism for them as further establishing they are doing the right thing. Remember in their eyes they need confirmation they are not the bad person.

As time passes and the separation becomes closer manipulation steps up, the kids are shown more and more examples of you being the parent in the wrong  and reasons why this separation is happening, by now the other person has a handle on the fact something is very wrong but living in denial out of self preservation until the inevitable separation comes crashing down on all and sunder.

It ends with one party (normally the one who has instigated the separation) able to fully function and get on with life and the other totally distraught and under the effects of depression trying to understand what just happened. The children have been worked on priorly and tend to be living in the other parties truth and not so much reality.

Because of this conditioning what tends to happen is we deal with all of our issues emotionally, natural enough as we are torn apart with emotional pain, problem being we need to be able to keep the emotional pain away from mediation and legal concerns otherwise any realistic argument that may be put forward is over shadowed by emotional reflex. To say we come across as manipulative, irrational and controlling.

Even if your X was in jail the children still have a right to see him so the argument about him doing illegal things that he has not been charged with would be a non-starter unless there was evidence that the environment would be harmful for the children. Although ripping a snake in half may be appalling to many other children are exposed to similar things via culture such as farm life etc. It's not a big argument either.

Even the situation prior to separation with the verbal abuse will be considered situational and now you are apart the children will not be exposed to it, also considered will be the fact that this behavior will not continue in his home or yours.

It's important that you do get to talk about this and work through things for yourself so I'm glad you have the support to do this.

Forget about what he does and just do what you need to do, many of these courses you do not need to do together so take the advantage and do the course and don't concern yourself with him, if he does not complete the course that has been ordered then let the court deal with that.

IF there is too much information that could be considered irrelevant to the concerns of the court within the affidavits, then translation of important information will be lost, you may have to see what you can do to compose the information so the important things can be seen.

Is there an independent child lawyer involved ?

With regards to your nine year old assaulting you, I would suggest that this may have been situational and you played a role in the lead up, normally a child will strike out in this manner out of frustration with someone because they do not know how else to express their feelings, their darkness builds up then bang it explodes, admittedly prior to this there may have been an opinion born you do not deserve respect which alienation will add to yet this can be countered even during alienation and violence normally wouldn't be a side effect.

Sorry if this seems a bit harsh it's just a general observation.

Regards D4E
   

 

       
Can you do me a favor vipashana could you repost your reply I'm having trouble reading it as it appears as fine print on my screen, old age and such you know.

As I suggested before my comments are generalizations on limited knowledge of your situation, with each piece of further information more is understood about what personally happened to you and of course this changes how people who read your posts understand what you have been through.

Cheers D4E
Hey D4E.. sorry, I haven't quite worked out the 'quoting' option.. will repost tonight when daughter in bed.
Yes, I know, there is always MORE to every story, and hard to comment.. and hard to know how much to post too… all comments are happily rec'd though.. especially the 'tough' ones.. these are the ones that force us to look inside, Thanks.

All Target Parents of Alienation, lets Unite to make an impact where it's needed for our lost children ..  http://bringingpeace2alienatedchildren.blogspot.com/
Your right with regards to how much it is safe to post as many sites are trawled for information so only post what you are comfortable and confident with posting. I'll look forward to your further posts, don't stress about the size of print it may appear alright on some computers but I have a small screen and bad vision, combined not good.

Regds D4E

Moderator Note
D4E kindly reminds everybody that sites are often trawled. Be aware the public forums on this site are also indexed by Google.
If you need to post privately you will have to join a closed group.
Site Admin said
There are not less than 6 Google bots always operating on the site plus many other search bots. All information in public forums, news, FAQ's, publications (Not Library) and Community pages is indexed within hours of being posted.
Hey D4E.. I went M.I.A, as I finally rec'd a book I'd ordered from O.S months ago and I pretty much dropped everything and read it in 24 hrs.  Pam Stevenson "A kidnapped Mind", you may have heard of it?  VERY powerful and telling.. and so familiar in so many ways.

With regard to legal questions.. the only things I can think of asking at the moment are:

1. is this forum a place to ask around for a referral to a psych or counsllr experienced (or expert) in PAS or PA in Australia?  (why are they all O.S!!)  Note: the O.S's ones have given me a couple of 'names in Aus' but they have all fallen through.

2. what rights does a parent have in a public school (outside following what the fam orders say) to access/see their child when they 'live with' the other parent 100% but have 50/50 custody?

3. Is there a good web page you can recommend that I can put in my 'favourites' for Quick Searching Aust Family Law (or just the general court site one)?

All Target Parents of Alienation, lets Unite to make an impact where it's needed for our lost children ..  http://bringingpeace2alienatedchildren.blogspot.com/
vipashana said
2. what rights does a parent have in a public school (outside following what the fam orders say) to access/see their child when they 'live with' the other parent 100% but have 50/50 custody?

For NSW, theres the document entitled "Family Law and the School".  It can be found on here, but here's a link to the official det.nsw.gov.au source Family Law and the School (NSW).

Basically both parents have very much the same rights, unless court orders say otherwise, however some schools appear to not be aware of the policies they should use and some parents, generally the "spends time with parents", have difficulties in getting treated the same as the other parent.

I can't see why this shouldn't be for all of Australia (except perhaps for WA) as Family Law is Federal.

Edit

Heads up for W.A. with regards to parental rights in education, we have very good policies over here but much as the same with other states you need to educate yourself on those policies as some teachers need help understanding why those policies are important to the child.

P.A.S. as a term has a few inherent problem historically and although perhaps accepted in some O.S. countries it has not been adopted here in Australia perhaps because of some holes in the theory that are not as socially acceptable as places like America. Try to forget about P.A.S. as a credible information reference and look towards Alignment which tends to have more legal accreditation in Australia although on occasion P.A. is heard alignment seems to be the preferred. Stay far away from the verbal use of the term P.A.S. in a legal sense if you want thing to progress and accept it will be shunned by all and sunder in the Australian professional circle.

Public schools Mikes already discussed and custody no longer exists being replaced with parental responsibility which may need a court order to exercise if parents can not come to an agreement and the usual procedure of mediation etc will need to be adhered to.

The trouble with educating ones self with regards to family law is the amount of information that you need to trawl through, I usually start at the family court site and then search through FL regulations and laws to find clarity on subjects after that you need to find information on how the law has been applied in situations ( case history ) that can be referenced to support your case and it just goes on from there. Here you will read many discussions on how the laws can be interpreted and how the matriarch of the courts has the last determinism's of the rules and laws.

I haven't heard of Pams book, I've just had a quick look at the description though.

What we forget much of the time is that we are a product of our society, when our government adopts bad policies towards specific parts of society there is a social price to pay which reflects in our children, one of those social experiments started around the 70's and has taken quite some years to show it's destructive effects, it involved giving mothers total control of the children and encouraging them not to work as bringing up children was a career. Now people are making oodles of money writing about the damage that has been created via this and the social acceptance of further developed attitudes. There is no doubt that mothers are not the only users of alignment but they do have the most support in initiating elements that assist if not encourage alienation from fathers, much of this support has been government funded.

It's simply, a very unhealthy situation that comes down to governmental policies destroying our future , our children.

D4E
  
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