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Young father contact issues with baby son

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10 month old little boy, he and the mother had a casual encounter which resulted in a baby. My son lives at home with me and the mother moved back to her home town just prior to the birth of the baby (prior to that she was living and working in the town i

Hi, it was obvious from about the third line that there is no other option here but court action.

He clearly needs court orders or consent orders which are enforceable.

I would be attempting an urgent application to the court due to the young age of the child and the fact that she denies contact regularly.

Don't mess around here, time without seeing the child will hurt the father's application. Good luck
I'm wondering why dad still doesn't have a license. He was told that the mother was pregnant 2 weeks after conception. He would have had 8 months PLUS 10 months after birth to get a license so he can drive himself up and down without having to ask his mum all the time. If he wants to be an adult taking care of a young child, he needs to be more independent and start thinking for himself. Why isn't dad himself on here complaining? Why is it his mum instead?
 I think the court might decide more favorably for dad if he would be able to defend and take care of himself first. How can you expect someone to take care of a precious little baby if he can't even take care of himself?

 To the dad….. Perhaps it's a good idea to get your license? You're well overdue. We live in a large country and we don't have perfect public transport like they have in small countries. You also can't expect your mum to keep driving you around. It would make life a whole lot better and easier for all of you. Do you really want to have your mother there every single time you have you child? Are you not grown up/ responsible enough to handle your own child without your mother always being there?
 Your license means you can start looking for a job. A job means you can start looking for your own place to live. Your own place might mean more access to your child without other people hovering around you (like your mum).
 Maybe if dad becomes more independent himself, than his baby's mum might be a bit more lenient. I don't think the problem is dad. I think the root of the problem is dad's mum and his dependency on her :thumbs:

Goodluck with it all, I'm afraid that court might just be the only option you have.
Guest said
Maybe you should also read some recommendations for babies this age.
Latest research suggests regular frequent contact. This means every other day contacts of a few hours or more.
Guest said
I think the mother is being very generous giving one night a week to a complete stranger. Especially one who seems to lack the maturity and get go to get a job and a license
One has to ask the question as to why the father, who has been desperate it seems, to facilitate contacts has been structurally and systematically removed from this child's life. That is certainly a  question that a Federal Magistrate might be so inclined to ask.

Immediate efforts to get into formal mediation should commence, obtain a 60I cert and head off to have someone make some orders as neither of these parents are cooperating in a way that will set up any environment to facilitate proper and adequate contacts. Wait no longer. Time has run out.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
Hmmmm I think this has become too personal to be on a public site like this anyway.

Please do not ever forget that mother, father, grandmother, etc do not have any rights. It is the child who has the rights and the magistrate/judge will make his/her decision based on what he/she thinks is best for the child's physical and mental well being.
Also please stop referring to "other people's" posts on this website. I had a good look around and read a fair few posts. Every case is different and unique. You can't possibly base your son's rights on other people's cases.

I really do hope you can keep this out of court, but reading replies from either side, I think it's highly unlikely you'll succeed.
Brydz I hopeyou put your childs interests before your own and realise that it is the childs right to know both parents and as such shared care is good for a child.
You do not need a court or mediater, just sit with the other parent and talk.
Remember also that each parent is part of a larger family and that includes you and the other parent.
If both parents can agree then great for the child.
Once a court order is made it is binding on all parties and failure to keep to the order is a contravention.
Depending on the type, number, reason for , ect, of the contravention it can be a mild affair all the way to prison time.
If one parent witholds the child the magistrate can if he desires, give the child to live with the other parent.
I would suggest you find a professional mediator to help you.  In my personal experience the free community ones like Relationship Australia are not effective in high conflict situations.  It is worth paying for a good mediator who will say it as he/she sees it, tell you what you can expect in court, call one or both parents out on their behaviour.  You don't get that in the community ones.

I have tried that and also a mediator appointed by the court.  She was great.  She could see through the problem person, called him out on stuff he should have said or not said and got a good agreement.  Trouble is he didn't sign it after mediation.  So my other piece of advise would be that if you go down this path you get the agreement signed up as orders immediataly.  You can send them into court and have them registered as consent orders if both parents sign. Get it signed on the day.

My 2c worth

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
There have been a number of private posts from a number of members regarding this situation and I believe and hope that some sensible progress will be made. The parents need to find a way to cooperatively parent this young boy. Legal actions do not help resolve issues where there is some other option and court orders simply set up a  regime where cooperative parenting can eventually start to take hold. Mediation is the best outcome I think but there is also the question of the most important day of the year for fathers and that day is on Sunday fathers day. I hope some sense can prevail, and digging into pockets and bring out some compassion and humility toward each other.

What would be helpful I think is some suggestions from members as to what sort of activities could be undertaking to facilitate frequent regular contacts considering the distance (50 Mins drive) the father lives from the child. Skype video is obviously a good option as its free. Any other contact options? Parks? Soon comes and has dinner at mothers town a couple of nights a week, takes bubs?

And lastly thank you Guest for reminding the parties this is a public forum.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
Common senses has prevailed, baby to spend time with his dad for fathers dad, thanks
A number of posts have been removed from this thread and a number of members have sent email to the support account indicated they are not happy about that.

We will need to look carefully into some of the posts and work out the best option to recover post data that has been moved.

Site Director
Thank you for looking into this, I have no problem with my posts remaining, in fact my last post ( now removed) states I object to their removal.
The original request for advice from me provides background information about our case and sought feedback regarding positive resolution, and avoidance of legal system, it also sought advice about proceeding through legal means should avoidance continue to be unsuccessful.

I did not provide any information that identified either party ( obviously the person also involved can tell who it is about) and I wrote what has occurred and our concerns, surely the purpose of this forum.

In response I have received some vey helpful advice, again the purpose of the forum :dry:

The posts trying to argue the case, justify position and introduce arguments supporting actions taken do not serve the purpose of this forum, and the rules are clear about guest posts etc ( that said I did make one guest quick reply post regarding centre link payments as I has signed out of the forum at time. I am happy for that post to be attributed to me.

If others have included information they regret I do not object to it's removal, most of that information is available on this site and can be seen by all. Removal of those posts actually then enables people to provide advice and support to the original request and ( having read the discussion in this site about post removal ) the thread will still make sense.

I still wonder how we can access this site other than through the whisper function, and would like to ask someone to explain the privacy settings in the SRL resources please.
Solace, you come across as an articulated person with a genuine concern and rightly using this forum for suport and advise .This website I believe has an established integrity maintained by a group of wise people to ensure it does not turn into a "Days of our Lives" comical area to read when the public has nothing better to do. Family law issues as you are well aware  are highly volitate with many people subject to unjust court orders and emotional upheavals between parents.

Unfortunately reading this thread down the track, it came across that you may be egging  Bryze on. Your dialogue with her on this public forum is demeaning to the child and judging by its contents will no doubt be used in court to support your case. That is how it comes across on this forum.

However as you say you would like responses to be whispered. That is sensible and I hope you will continue to use this approach and not vent your detailed airings in such a public place.

If this website allows exchanges between warring families of a child  it has then lost its respectability and integrity it has in the past worked hard to maintain for the good of the public as a support service.
Dear guest, I agree that forums such as this should be used for their intended purpose, the other party actually elected ( of her own free will) to not only respond but also to respond in the manner she did.
If it appears to you that I egged her on I can assure you that it was not my intention. I would certainly not have chosen for her to highjack this topic in this manner. If my posts were visible you would see they were quite deliberately written to provide an amount of background to allow people to understand the CURRENT situation, and provide effective responses and advice. The current problem, baby being denied time with his dad, and a prior history of similar behaviour, and feelings of despair of how to resolve.

I actually feel that there was some intention to "egg me on" as it were, and i believe my posts were recounting our issues and concern. Like any person, i will respond when it appears that I am being manipulated or goaded, I did respond to what followed however, what transpired is the equal responsibility of us both.

In retrospect I also could have refrained from commenting, I would have preferred not to be placed in that position in the first place. As far as court proceedings go, It is obvious we have tried through this whole situation to avoid that, if that is where it ends up both parties will be providing affidavits and making their case, and I am sure that this website could give both parties some advice about what is admissible in court. I hope you are not suggesting that I somehow made the other party behave the way she has so I could use it against her in court? If so you are seriously misguided in your understanding of the court process. Additionally IF you are asserting I have been untruthful, I would have no issue swearing in court to anything I have written here, and providing details of dates of events and context of conversations should it come to that.

Personally, there is no intention of using what has been written by the other party in court proceedings ( should that end up being the result) i cannot see any court giving credence to what was written; what will be considered is the actions and decisions of both parties and the WELLBEING of the baby ( my grandson) from my perspective that speaks well enough for itself.
I genuinely hope (can I say desperately) they will get into mediation and give their son the life he deserves. More to the point, professional mediation will assess the attitudes and capabilities of the both. Finally, i agree much of what has occurred is demeaning to my grandson (and to his father), hence my concern.

Final comment, the majority of the previous posts by the other party on this site actually contain various and repeated. versions of the posts made by her in this thread, if you have concerns that what has been written may be used against her, that information by and large required no "egging on" by anyone. Best wishes
For those who wrote to the site admins here is the initiating post:

solace said
Hi my son has a 10 month old little boy, he and the mother had a casual encounter which resulted in a baby. My son lives at home with me and the mother moved back to her home town just prior to the birth of the baby (prior to that she was living and working in the town in which we live) so they live about 50 mins drive from each other.

I will refer to them as mum and dad, dad advised mum that he intended to have a full role as a parent to his son and would seek a full shared care arrangement, mum has never said she does not agree to this however as time goes by it is apparent that there is no intention of this occurring. Initially they went to family relationships counselling to commence negotiating their roles in the baby's life and especially the birth, name etc. This dod not go well and the plans in place were so vaguely written that none of what was agreed has been kept to.
The baby was born and mum decided that she would dictate all contact arrangements and supervise any contact that occurred ( this is facilitating a father relationship in her mind we think). As a new mum her anxiety regarding her baby is understandable however it ha become stranger and stranger since that time.
So far dad was not allowed to spend an hour with baby unsupervised for Christmas ( at a day and time chosen by mum), mum was upset by dads requests and told him she had legal advice not to allow ( this has transpired to have been untrue) however mum's actions resulted in baby not seeing his dad for 7 weeks ( which at the time was half the life of the baby).

Things progress and mum informs dad she will be studying on Tuesday's, dad rearranges his schooling so he can mind baby and is very excited, when they discuss mum says that it is not suitable and that she intends her mother to mind the child because baby would be too far away from her. I suggested at that stage that one of them see a lawyer and request court ordered mediation, and that the the other person could be invited ( less legal fees which neither can afford) and    the beginnings of some negotiated agreements for the
future. Mum insisted that she would be the person to do this however there has been no progress to date ( february discussion). We spoke with a solicitor after some time had passed ( and again mum stopped contact) and mum kept saying it was being arranged, we
requested the other solicitor be contacted and enquired re progress of mediation and for interim arrangements to be determined, still no
 response or resolution.

In march dad gave mum some written ideas about what he thought should be in the parenting plan and has had no response until a couple of weeks ago when after yet another episode of no contact mum delivered her idea of a plan which includes mostly what they have discussed and she knows he will not agree to along with none of the things he has said are important to him.

These things being about a shared goal, best interests principles, medical arrangements and of course joint decision making, in particular he wants to have the opportunity to have the baby when mum cannot in preference to the baby being left elsewhere.

As mum insisted until recently that she supervise visits the arrangements involve her bringing the baby to our house and us taking him home, the issue is that mum will change agreed times by text and each week for the last 6 or so every visit has been changed. Recently mum had a party here and asked on the Wednesday if the Friday sleepover could be changed to sat so she could go to the party, and dad could have him for Sunday as she planned to drink and would likely have a hangover. Dad replied that he had plans in place for the visit already however was happy for her to drop him here for however long on the Saturday.

And this is where it gets hard, mum says baby doesn't know what day it is so what is the big deal, why do you want him 2 nights etc etc. Dad said his plans were already made and included the baby and he was more than happy to have him the extra time but not on this occasion instead of. Baby visited on Friday and mum arranged to collect him sat morning, mum told dad that she would take baby to party and just not drink, dad said while he understood he could do nothing about it he did not think taking the baby to the party where others would be drinking, smoking etc was the best idea, mum responded that she would call him if she changed her mind.

Dad has now suggested that he will start collecting baby at the beginning of the visit, his reasoning is based on our research of parenting plans where this seems to be the more usual arrangement, for dad it also means he is not always delivering the baby to other grandmother, much more positive start to a visit and hopefully less mucking around with the plans.

He suggested this in the communication book as mum not home to discuss (wednesday night) and mum sent a text Thursday afternoon asking why as it did not suit. They discussed it in person on wednesday night and agreed it was nicer to be collecting than delivering. Arrangements were that dad would collect 10 Friday morn and mum collect 3pm Sat(time suggested my mum). We arrived on Friday and mum asked dad to bring him back on saturday because she had no fuel, dad said yes ( as he usually does) as we were driving dad told me of this  request and I told him that I had something arranged ( dad is a learner driver) and I could come home to drive them but not until later in the afternoon which would mean baby would not be back til tea time. Dad sent mum a text and received a reply saying that mum would borrow petrol money and pick baby up at 11 as she had a dinner party in our town. Dad said he would rather he stay until 3 as arranged as he had plans, mum then said there were no such arrangements in place and that she would be at work? Several disagreeable texts later mum decided she would collect him at 3 and added that work understood her child comes first, if she was at work it really makes no sense that it would be a problem for the baby to come back a little later.

Obviously there is a lot more to the situation than this very long post for which I apologise.

Does anyone have any ideas about how we can progress this, we are thinking sadly that we will have to seek legal action and request the mediation ourselves ( which will probably cause more trouble), neither of these parents can afford a legal fight and the baby cannot afford for this upset to continue. My concern is that mum does not see the Childs relationship with his dad and paternal family as important, there is a real focus on her getting to know dad and planning happy family birthday celebrations ( which she wants dad to be involved in with her family, but presumably not paternal family) and very unrealistic given nobody knows each other, and which is concerning to watch.

Any advice would be appreciated particularly regarding mum choosing for baby to be delivered to other grandparent rather than spending time with dad, this is not trying to nitpicking but baby spends very extended periods of time with m grandmother and consecutive nights, when dad is available, offered, asked etc. From my point of view it is heartbreaking to watch a young man getting organised for time with his son and see his face when he gets a message cancelling, or when baby doesn't arrive because mum is annoyed with him, he has arranged a regular playgroup for when he has the baby, and it is obvious that baby is loved, properly cared for and settled when he is with his dad. Dad has not ever said he thinks he is more important than mum, he strongly believes he is equally important to his child as the mum, but he has been told that m grandmother does not agree that baby should be allowed to stay at dad's, I cannot see any other way forward except through legal means which means both parents and baby get stuck with a rigid arrangement that will probably not be followed and set the situation for the future as adversarial and unpleasant.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
Solace just reading your post some I am a bit confused you state in the first line that your son had a casual encounter that produce a child. I can only assume that this was a one night stand. Throughtout your post you complain that the mother is not allowing your son contact ask your self how many grandmothers know that they have a grandchild from a casual encouter as you put it.Is the baby's mother not allow to have some time to herself, after it was a birthday party probably of a close friend, I guess your son is free to come and go to parties, pubs etc without a small child in tow.
Can you prove that the mother was not acting under legal advice when she was told not to allow access, Iam sure that the lawyer would be a bit p'd off with your suggestion if it were true.
You mention that the mother has dictated all the terms could this because your son and your family are total strangers to her. She is trusting you all with the baby she gave birth to.
I gather from one of your paragraphs that the mother had to lose a days pay to pick up the baby because your son refused to change his plan, so why would she have said she would pick him up at three if she was already at work. Could this had been a mistaken time by your son.
What does your son have against the other grandmother surely she is helping her daughter in a difficult situation. What time does your son return the baby to his other grandmother, is it during the day ot night. Does the baby's mother work regualsr shifts or does she do shift work things like this may make your post more understandable
Idamac thanks for your post.

The mum and dad have done some hard work the last few days and they are both to be commended for that.
I am not sure that is helpful to rehash the points you are raising however I am happy to clarify the following points.
Children have the right to know and be part of their families ( family law act), you are correct that there are possibly many paternal families that do not know the existence of a child, in our case that is not the case. Not sure what the point you are making is; if it is to suggest that baby has less right to know fathers family because conception was a one night stand, or that mother has the right to prevent a relationship with father than I would have to say that the best interests of the child remain paramount.

Re. The birthday party? Of course mum has the right to have time to herself, and one would assume baby being with dad would assist her to do exactly that, in this instance ( as has been the case on a number of times) mum spoke well in advance of an event in august, the dates etc were not discussed until late in the piece and dad did not say that he would not have the baby ( in fact mum was told that dad was looking forward to seeing his own dad, he has recently moved to be about 4 hours away, had not seen him for several weeks and that the baby had not seen him for quite a while. In addition dad offered that he would babysit on the Saturday night, that he would collect baby from event if mum wanted etc. Baby could have had his visit with dad and grandpa, spent Saturday with mum, and then come back to sleep, mum wanted dad to change usual arrangements completely, baby would not have seen grandpa and young uncles etc). Other options were also offered to mum including an offer from me, we offered to dress baby for party etc etc).
Dad does make plans for baby when he is expecting him to be here, the issue was nothing to do with not wanting mum to have the chance to attend her party.

Both parents have a right to a social life, the baby has a right for common sense to prevail and taking him to the party instead of leaving him with dad to sleep in his own bed would surely be a more sensible option for.

Given, there are some legal activities currently occurring it would not be wise to discuss that further here, the point to that is a solicitor may give advice when asked "I have no orders do I have to do x,y or z" but a decent lawyer would also add that should the matter go to court the court will examine the intent and attitude regarding facilitating a relationship with the other parent. The solicitors have now been in contact with each other.

We are all strangers, the baby is a member of both families, and the baby is not the one that made this situation, yes mum gave birth, this only was possible because of the dad, do you not think there is a reason it takes a male and female to create a child, this attitude is one that absolutely insulting to fathers and their children. Conversely dad also trusts mum with his child and if they could proceed by respecting the equal importance of both roles the baby will benefit, if you were this Childs parent or grandparent is that not what you would want?

Mum losing a days pay, I am absolutely certain that my son was not mistaken in his understanding of the arrangements. On the Wednesday evening they discussed why dad wanted to collect baby for his visit and they agreed  it is much more positive for both of them, they agreed that dad would collect on Friday at 10 and mum would collect on Saturday at 3, the mum suggested 3 pm and dad agreed.
The sad part about what transpired was that dad when he got in the car was so pleased that they had been able to negotiate something and that it was not difficult and did not create any disagreement. When he collected baby on Friday morning as arranged mum asked if he could bring baby back on Saturday as she had no fuel. Dad said yes however when he told me I had to say that I had a commitment ( my mum currently undergoing chemotherapy) and yes I could bring baby back to mum but not at the agreed time, it was not possible for me to be home at 2 to return baby by 3, we called his dads brothers to see if either was available, one in Melbourne and working other not in town for the weekend, we had no option but to send mum a text saying that yes we could bring him back to mum but not until tea time. Mum then sent a text saying she would borrow money for fuel and that she was going to be in our town that night anyway so would stay over and collect baby at 11 am. Dad and baby had plans given the arrangement was made for 3 and asked the visit remain. Mum then said she had never agreed to 3 because she was at work, and he was to have baby ready at 11.

 We do not understand the rationale from there on in, mum chose to stick to 3 and gave up her days work rather than have baby dropped back around 6 to other grandmother. My opinion is the decision was unnecessary the baby would not have come to any harm with dad, mum was not even going to be there so what was the problem given the situation?

The dad has NO issue with the other grandmother, he believes that family is extremely important, the issue is that mum chooses for baby to be with other g/mother at times when he could be with dad, and that it is for extended periods of time, and that mum repeatedly says that baby is too young to be away from mum ( so cannot be with dad) and yet is left with g/ mother so is actually not with mum.
Mum does work shifts, dad has repeatedly said they should work around those shifts and that he is prepared to, regularly every solution that has been offered to overcome has been refused ( they have now had some discussion about rosters, when they are posted and hopefully they will get better at negotiating).

I might add that these two young people have a hard road ahead of them and it can only progress positively if they stop looking for reasons for it to not work.

This baby is truly blessed to have two loving families, while all the adults are strangers to each other no child should be a stranger to his family.

This young man has been systematically denied the opportunity to develop a parenting role with this baby when all he is trying to be a dad to his son, and he is doing a great job, the reverse option is for his son to grow up not knowing his father, not having a loving relationship with a decent young man or his extended family how is this in the best interests of this child.

Baby's are not the sole province of their mother simply because of biology.

solace said
Baby's are not the sole province of their mother simply because of biology.
solace, this is in essence the problem you and your son are facing, because your interpretation of shared or sufficient care for dad is very different to what the mother thinks.  In her mind, dad is getting to see baby enough and in your son's mind he is not spending enough time with baby.

A few times the word "strangers" came up in the above posts and I think it is worth pointing out that the mother might feel resentment due to the fact that the baby has been welcomed into your family but she hasn't. And while I can very well imagine why this might be the case, the mother does not seem mature enough to fully comprehend and rationally examine the situation from everybody's point of view. Neither does she realise that it takes a lot of time and work to establish a truly mutually amicable relationship considering the lack of history or relationship in this case.
I think that there need not be any further posts on this topic. The father and I have spoken and worked out a short term arrangement that everybody is happy with and will continue to try and work things out ourselves until mediation occurs and we can get something more solid worked out.

Baby is happy and has seen dad once more since fathers day and will be going to stay there with him tomorrow as well (I have work tomorrow so it works out perfectly well).

Thanks for everyones opinions and input and a big thanks to the kind words I've received via whisper that have helped me to view the whole situation differently.

Babushka you are entitled to an opinion but judging someones maturity level when you don't know a thing about them is not called for. I stand by previous statements that I have only done things for the best interests of our child, and I am willing to admit that perhaps sometimes I've gone about things the wrong way (I don't think this signals a lack of maturity, I think it just means that I am sometimes overwhelmed in a very difficult situation, but we are all learning as we go along). We are all only human and we all make mistakes. I am working on forgetting all the dramas past and moving forward to do what is best for our child.
Brydz, well done I was about to say the same thing, not helpful for all the other rehashing. You both have done well, little guy is beautiful and I am sure you will keep working through things.
If anyone has ideas as secretary SPCA suggested I am sure both mum and dad will be interested to hear.
I agree with brydz let the other stuff be, the parents are struggling enough, they are young, they love their child,I am sure they will succeed :P
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