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I dont what to do she wont come home after going to the Airport to pick them all up last night, and celebrate our daughters 1st birthday today, my wife informs me she is not coming back to our family home in Perth where our 7 year old was born and our no

Hello all,

My wife and children left for a family holiday on the 14th of March 2012 to Adelaide, to visit her Mum,Dad and Family. They are all from Adelaide. I had to do some work in the country for a fortnight and then stayed on for Easter, while I went back to work locally and the plan was with flights booked and payed for was to return yesterday to Perth 11/04/2012.

Now after going to the Airport to pick them all up last night, and celebrate  our daughters 1st birthday today, my wife informs me she is not coming back to our family home in Perth where our 7 year old was born and our now 1 year old was born. We have lived for the last 8 years.

 I am absolutely devastated by these actions and not having seen my wife and children for nearly a month which i miss deeply every waking hour i just dont know what to do i cant afford a lawyer and i cant afford to just jump in a plane to go and see them i would miss a house payment if i do so but i think i must , can she legally do this you would think not, but her brother is a lawyer in Adelaide and i wouldnt imagine she would do something she cant legally do.

Things have been a bit tough financially of late and there has been some pressure on our marriage but nothing that prompts these actions and certinley nothing i have done warrants these actions i am not a violent or abusive man never have been never will be  i am a loving hard working committed dad and husband and i really don't know if i can cope with what has happened .


I have plead with my wife to come home today and now she will not even take my calls or answer my texts i dont even know where they are she is not with her Mum and Dad its just bizarre surely i have rights as the bio logical and loving father?

In Worried Anticipation

Wally


Edits made to make it easier to read

Monteverdi

Last edit: by monteverdi

Dont worry, she will contact you when she wants child support, then you can request mediation to arrange contact with the children. You dont need a lawyer to get this ball rolling.
Her parents will know where she is so you can start sending the paperwork to them. She will be depending on someone to house her and the children.
Fight quick and hard for relocation - do not let the new location become their 'home' otherwise you will be faced the with comment 'that is their home now and you can unsettle them'. This means you end up with costly or impossible visits and fighting from a position of weakness.
Go see a solicitor and get a "Return Order"…NOW!!

Moderator Note
What is a "Return Order"?
I should clarify-I meant you should start sending paperwork to her parents now(or any address where you think she may be) to advise that you are commencing legal action stating that you didnt agree to the relocation of the children. I didnt actually mean you should do nothing.
You should do something.
Hi all a bit of a update and its not good she has decided to rent a unit in Adelaide with out my consent and is with holding there address i can barley talk to my children and only when she feels it suits her if i ring to talk to my 5yr old son she basically dosent answer only it seems if i ring @ around 9 in the morning…….. it seems i have no alternative now but going to see a solicitor and spend family money we dont basically have because she is running up debt on her credit card now for everything….. this is turning into a absolute nightmare now that in the short term will probably cost our home our marriage and our business it just dosent make sense these actions.

Wally
Hi all a bit of a update and its not good she has decided to rent a unit in Adelaide with out my consent and is with holding there address i can barley talk to my children and only when she feels it suits her if i ring to talk to my 5yr old son she basically dosent answer only it seems if i ring @ around 9 in the morning…….. it seems i have no alternative now but going to see a solicitor and spend family money we dont basically have because she is running up debt on her credit card now for everything….. this is turning into a absolute nightmare now that in the short term will probably cost our home our marriage and our business it just dosent make sense these actions.

Wally
wally,
You should act now. It is important to get the ball rolling to get contact with your child asap.
Everything costs money, but a relationship with your child is priceless.
I think your right Bdub ….if it cost me my home etc at least i will have my sanity and hopefully some time with my children, any idea to what it costs to communicate with your wife via a solicitor …this just seems insaine but as you say i have no alternative .

Wally
Depends where you are now. In SA its about $400 an hour. There are rules about how much a Family Lawyer can charge you for certain things.

But some will give you the first 30mins free. Sometimes that is enough to get you rolling on your own as a Self Represented Litigant (SRL).
There is a whole site for SRL's

http://flwg.com.au/srl-r/pg/start
Geez Bdub thanks ….400 an hr hey wow it takes me around 10 hrs to earn that what a waste of money!!!! i have decided to take tommorow morning off work and try to move forward with this, the SRL looks the plan but i wonder if it packs the same weight as having legal representation?

Wally
wally,

You could start with a "letter of intention" from the lawyer. Its just where the lawyer writes to your wife,  that they are acting on your behalf and that you did not agree to the child relocating. The lawyer may claim that you are willing to negotiate WRT the wifes change of address if contact with the child is reinstated immediately.

If the letter is successful and she is willing to negotiate or attend mediation, you are on your way as a SRL. If she wont respond to the lawyers letter, you need to proceed with haste and apply to the court to have the child returned to the family home.
Thanks Bdub i will take that as my plan for the morning …..i simply just cant sit on my hands anymore wishing for a fair and just outcome because this whole situation just dosent make sense anymore and if i do nothing about it seems it will just be a longer period befror i see my children and i just cant bare it much longer just having  a phone call to communicate with my son and daughter its just not right .

goodnight all and thank you all for your comments i have basically been to embarrassed to talk to any of my friends about this as i have been wishing for positive outcomes daily but i think i have to now as i cant bottle this up inside anymore .

Wally
Wally

Wally said
the SRL looks the plan but i wonder if it packs the same weight as having legal representation?
  I am an SRL in a contravention hearing.  I have found that the FM has been helpful and understanding and that I don't feel disadvantaged as an SRL.  When something was ordered last time i didn't understand it and he was happy to explain it to me and in fact asked to make sure I did understand.  I think more and more people are going SRL because of the prohibitive legal fees.

I have seen quite a few other SRL's when I have been in court for my matter and they vary greatly but I have found that the FM does seem to accept them and take into account that they are SRL's.

If you also are acting fair and reasonable and respectful then I would say that you could manage as an SRL.  The thing is that it takes a whole heap of time.  As mine is a contravention and not a full hearing for children's orders, I don't have to be familiar with all the ins and outs of the law.  I am familiar with the contravention stuff. 

But I have spent hours and hours and hours and hours on it.  My 11 page affidavit of reasonable excuse too me days and days to write.  i am now working every single evening for hours on my cross examination questions.  It is very very time consuming and if you don't put in the work and time you may not get the outcome you want. 

I think for me that is the biggest thing, the amount of time I have had to spend on this, it is all consuming and being totally immersed in it daily is the only way I can manage to get everything done that I need to.  You need to be prepared to put in all that time.

Good luck

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
larissap said
My 11 page affidavit of reasonable excuse too me days and days to write.
Eleven pages for a reasonable excuse? That is a very long Affidavit for a reasonable excuse unless you are dealing with many contraventions. Courts do not like storybooks. Child orders affidavits sometimes only run for 5 or 6 pages. Remember for every extra paragraph you have opened yourself for greater challenges to your material. On the Shakespeare note "Methinks she does protest too loud" could be used against you.

Conan

It is complex and it contains a number of reasons and there was nothing in it that I wanted to leave out because it all proves my point.  In fact I think I could prove it in a few sentences and that I did not contravene but after the first few sentences I put in all the other reasons as a back up. 

If it were simply that my child was sick it would be different but it is not.  FYI though I included a summary which was only 1 page and the rest of the affidavit is my evidence to back up what I put in the summary.  I don't think just because it is long it means I am 'protesting too loudly' or could be seen to be doing that - it means it is complex and I have a lot of evidence to back up what I am saying! I am happy to be questioned on every single point I have made because I have said nothing but the truth.  It is the ex that has a problem with his one page affidavit full of inconsistencies and lies!

On another point, when I did my child orders and property with a lawyer my affidavit (written by the lawyer) was around 35 pages. 

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
larrisap said
It is complex and it contains a number of reasons and there was nothing in it that I wanted to leave out because it all proves my point.  In fact I think I could prove it in a few sentences and that I did not contravene but after the first few sentences I put in all the other reasons as a back up.
If a few sentences proves your case  why are you engaging in overkill?
larrisap said
If it were simply that my child was sick it would be different but it is not.  FYI though I included a summary which was only 1 page and the rest of the affidavit is my evidence to back up what I put in the summary.  I don't think just because it is long it means I am 'protesting too loudly' or could be seen to be doing that - it means it is complex and I have a lot of evidence to back up what I am saying! I am happy to be questioned on every single point I have made because I have said nothing but the truth.  It is the ex that has a problem with his one page affidavit full of inconsistencies and lies!
Whoa, what do you mean by summary? Are you using a summary to argue your case? your Affidavit is a fact based document that details evidence, are you writing about a submission or are you writing about a Case Outline?
larrisap said
On another point, when I did my child orders and property with a lawyer my affidavit (written by the lawyer) was around 35 pages.
Please dont try to split hairs as you did about lodging applications, your 11 pages is long for a reasonable excuse and your 35 pages is long for child/property  orders unless you had a complex case. You should understand that solicitors bread and butter is documentation, the more the better, more time = more money. Barristers prefer shorter material as it focuses the case. Your exs one page may be the result of a Barrister focusing on the direct points of the case.
Hi all and thanks for the opinions it sure is a mind field no doubt and a costly one …  i am starting to understand how lawyers are earning 400k+ PA dealing with peoples problems its very sad really isn't as fair and just outcomes seem to be put into a way to earn a living and enforce the law in a user pays format and basically destroy a persons past existence for a separated future , iam having trouble getting my head around all this ATM ,but it seems my wife is content in Adelaide and the children miss me dearly , and without destroying my existence it seems i have to make some hard decisions that being the future of the family home and business i obviously cant afford to keep it and help fund my children s future  and its a constant reminder whist being here of what my life was full of family memories etc and its really starting to get to me personally, but by the looks of it i cant move forward whilst funding our home and business and fighting this case iam contemplating moving to Adelaide at this stage to try and make my time with my children possible as it seems my wife dosent want to be a part of our life in Perth anymore after our discussion today or maybe non discussion is more apt, i was told what was happening and it was take it or leave it kinda talk.

So basically i am thinking atm to turn my back on my family past in Perth  and try to forge a future for myself and my children because without contact with my children what future do i have ,one that i cannot contemplate and have never had to till this past week , the talk with the lawyer today was really quite enlightening because i felt he gleamed that there was no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow so fell hes advice was sound and quite compassionate in all , i fell i will need to contemplate this for a period of time to truly get my head around it but at this stage i cant see a alternative.

Iam booking on a flight to Adelaide on Wednesday of next week and will stay for 5 days to try to see my children and to try to make sense of this with my wife and i do feel that these costs alone will default our mortgage and with the credit card bills my wife is booking up atm that will basically put a end to our family homes future pretty quickly.

And thanks again all for responding to my problems and for the advice all this is helpful for me atm today has been a hard day for me facing things that i have never contemplated before….. life's a bi tch at times hey.

Wally
Having problems making the quoting work!

Conan you said that my reasonable excuse and original affidavit is long unless I have a complex case.  I already said it was complex!

larrisap said
It is complex
I am using a summary in my reasonable excuse affidavit because it is long.  I have researched writing affidavits and I have found sites that suggest that you put in a table of contents, which I did, and that you quote the original documents so that it is a stand alone document, which I have.  I put in some background as the FM needs to know that because in isolation what happened doesn't make sense.  I have about 10 reasons and each reason I have backed up with evidence from communication between the ex and I and from his solicitor and quoting the orders etc.

I have not used the 2 sentences which I think would prove my case because if this affidavit is ever tendered at court it means there is a case to answer and what I was advised about it not being a contravention was not agreed by the FM. Therefore as it is a serious matter I can't leave it just up to what I believe proves my case but would rather present all the rest of the evidence.

Conan, I really don't wish to enter into an 'argument' with you about the merits of my case when you have no information about what it is about or what my actions were.  I do not agree that my 11 pages is long and that my exes one page focuses on the direct points.  It doesn't.  My ex has not told his legal team everything and I am presenting all the things he left out to prove my case.  I can't prove to you what I am saying is correct and to be quite honest I don't need to or want to.  The only person that needs to see my proof and look at the merits of my case is the FM hearing the matter.  I am quite satisfied that what I have shows my reasonable excuse.  That is all that matters.

I offer advice on this site based on my experience and limited knowledge. I say again, that everyone is able to take what they want from this site and leave the rest.  I have found some comments helpful and useful and others to be judgemental and based on assumptions with lack of any knowledge about the situation.  I don't take notice of those comments if they do not relate to my situation.  End of story.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.
larrisap said
 I am using a summary in my reasonable excuse affidavit because it is long.  I have researched writing affidavits and I have found sites that suggest that you put in a table of contents, which I did, and that you quote the original documents so that it is a stand alone document, which I have.  I put in some background as the FM needs to know that because in isolation what happened doesn't make sense.  I have about 10 reasons and each reason I have backed up with evidence from communication between the ex and I and from his solicitor and quoting the orders etc.
Good that you have researched writing Affidavits but for which type of Court? You do realize that layouts and form are different for various Courts and that Family Courts have modified evidence rules for Affidavits.
larrisap said
 Conan, I really don't wish to enter into an 'argument' with you about the merits of my case when you have no information about what it is about or what my actions were.
No you have been rather mysterious about what you have made appear on the surface to be a simple contravention issue.
larrisap said
 I offer advice on this site based on my experience and limited knowledge. I say again, that everyone is able to take what they want from this site and leave the rest.  I have found some comments helpful and useful and others to be judgemental and based on assumptions with lack of any knowledge about the situation.  I don't take notice of those comments if they do not relate to my situation.  End of story.
The problem is that you are offering advice based on a lack of practical experience and limited knowledge. It is not a matter of people taking what they want from this site, they are here for information because they do not know the answers and incorrect information and assumptions can lead to poor outcomes. You are not even a one case wonder because your case has not even concluded. So far you are arguing about lengths of Affidavits, Applications in a case, Reasonable excuse and Change of Circumstances in the forums. Quoting exceptions does not prove the rule, if anything if confuses people. This site has been around for over 5 years and I can tell you than when types starting professing knowledge that is not experienced based the moderators will step in or allow other people to do so.

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