Donate Child Support Calculator
Skip navigation

Minutes of Final Orders template

Add Topic
Does anyone have a minutes of final orders template suitable for a father?

Can anyone provide advice on the subject.

Thanks
Um… there is no template. They're essentially just orders written on a piece of paper.

What are you proposing in the Minutes of Orders that differs from the Final Orders Application?


4MYDAUGHTER
I'm self-represented due to financial constraints. I just need to make sure that I don't miss anything that I should include. I am aware I should be very careful of exact wording. I am also aware that a mistake in the Final Orders is difficult to amend, almost impossible.

How about a Final Orders template then? I have already completed the Final Orders sought and submitted this months ago but the Order now requires exchange of a Minutes of Final Orders for the final hearing. I thought this was an opportunity to modify the original Final Orders sought.

I am surprised there is no template as I would have thought there would many common elements in most of them. Fundamentally are there not typical final orders that I should be aware of. Also I need to the know formatting. An example I could template from and be sure that all points are included, such as issues about contact, holiday access, phone calls, educational involvement, health and any small and not obvious details would be very helpful.

What should I ask for. Should I ask for more to agree a compromise, meeting in the middle. Is that the general strategy?

By the way, 4mydaughter, you have provided me advice in the past that I have found very focussing and helpful.  Thank you.
There are many elements that are common and there are many drafts around the site. The SRL group have a set of standard orders covering many pages. We do not recommend you use a check-list and pick and choose. We recommend you sit down and write the things YOU need or can accommodate. If I get a moment will posts a few ideas.


Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
Editor said
You need to login as it is not possible to send material or advise material to a "Guest account". As you already have an account suggest you login and post with that account. All guest posts are edited and have to be validated before posts are made visible.
4mydaughter.

I read in another post that you provided a case outline to someone. Would you be able to provide it to me please?

Unless this is the same as the chronology that the opposing side send to me that then i modifiy and send back for them to apply final modifications before submission?

Sorry but I am confused here.

I have already filed three affidavits.Am Isupposed to file another affidavit specifically for the LAT? If so, is there something that is expressly to be included. I can't think of anything else expectforsome emails since the last filing a month ago. I guess it could include a response to the upcoming family assessment?

This is the list I received from the Court to be flied before the case management hearing:

 A statement of the issues in contention; - how is this presented and filed?
 Details of affidavits/witnesses that are proposed for the final
 hearing;
Assessment of the hearing time required. - I have no idea? 2-3 days is this realistic?

as well as the parenting questionnaire.

Please can I have some assistance.
Join the SRL group. They have much material which is published on the site here also.

From SRL (SRL-Resources) material

The most difficult aspect of creating orders is getting them right so that both parties know their responsibilities and then not overlooking items that have been or may even become problem areas in the future

Orders should be logical in that you do not need a law degree to interpret them.

Orders must say what you mean  its no good later saying it really means something else

No ambiguity  an order saying is authorised does not mean is ordered to or agrees to

Most orders consist of three major sections;
1 Where the child (or children) should reside (who should be the resident parent)
2 What contact the child (or children) should have with the other parent, with details specifying what contact and when
3 Specific Issues  such as schooling, religious education medical issues etc

As a start (whether you are applying for orders or orders that you will consent to) you must work out the practicalities of contact and if there are any difficulties offer practical solutions. What you want may not be the same as what the other party considers acceptable.

The issue with orders is simple  they will either be ordered by the Court or consented to by the other party. Always remember the underlying principle in Court decisions is in the best interests of the children. Consent orders by their nature of being agreed may not necessarily follow that rule.

There is no difference between orders made by a Court and Consent Orders  they are both legally enforceable. Remember also that if a Court has appointed another party in your case (such as a Childrens Lawyer) that party must also agree to any consent orders.

When creating your own orders stay away from legal numbering systems (unless you fully understand them) this is the 1 (a) (ii) style that you see in some documents. Keep yours simple use the 1s and 2s etc and even sub number with a, b, and c, etc  but be careful;

incorrect punctuation and an order under the wrong heading can have a different legal interpretation

Can you use heading in orders? Most times the answer is YES. The idea of orders is that that are unambiguous so you might have a heading that even states Mothers Day Fathers Day and another that states School Holidays

Some issues you might consider when creating orders
Contact
Pupil Free Days
Public Holidays
Easter
Christmas
Birthdays
School Holiday's
Special Family Events
Religious Holidays
Telephone contact
Contact with Grandparents or other significant adults
Fathers Day
Mothers Day

How contact occurs  who picks up or delivers and the mechanism for it. Suggestion: Add place of change over. Public place if there is the likelihood of any AVO proceedings.

I personally prefer and specify pick up and drop off from school or pre school in all situations possible.


Specific Issues Orders
Schools
Enrolments
School Events
School participation (helping in class etc.)
Information about school
Continuation at same school
Change of school
Both parents attending school events
Medical
Being informed of sickness
Knowledge of doctors
Ability to access doctors and medical procedures records.
Information passed on about doctors appointments
Others
Distance limitations
Contact between the parents (how)
Religious Education
Restrictions on certain types of sport or other activities
Restrictions on types of movies to be watched
Ethnic considerations
Relocation - Movement Orders
Orders prohibiting overseas travel
Travel
Passports
Emergencies how they are handled

DO NOT blithely copy someone elses orders because they look good - your circumstances may be completely different and their orders may have been made to cover certain
circumstances you are not aware of

DO NOT start putting things in orders because they just look good  your orders should be practical - not a wish list

Your application (with the orders) to the Court should be REALISTIC and CHILD FOCUSED if they are not and you go to a Court decision those terms may haunt you in the future

One problem often associated with orders is both parents misinterpreting what consultation and responsibility actually means to them. To avoid confusion you may wish to even spell
out what you mean by consultation and responsibility (to avoid disagreements in the future).

"AVOID "… As agreed between the parties, (because no one usually agrees) or At a convenient time (in relation to phone contacts) as the time is often "Never Convenient".

The SRL People have much information, if you are self represented, that is not public material. Some of this is from one of the SRL documents and is acknowledged.

I usually place the following in any drafts

1.   That both parties have equal shared parental responsibility for the children, child a born dd/mm/yyyy and child b born dd/mm/yyyy including but not limited to:
        a.   the childrens education, current and future
        b.   the childrens religious and cultural upbringing
        c.   the childrens health
        d.   the childrens name
        e.   a change in living arrangements that make it significantly more difficult for the children to spend time with each parent

   The parties consult each other about decisions to be made in the exercise of their equal shared parental responsibilities as follows and , they shall;
        I.   inform the other parent about the decision to be made
        II.   consult with each other on terms that they agree
        III.   make a genuine effort to come to a joint decision
        and sometimes I have added If the parents cannot agree they must attend dispute resolution mediation to resolve the issues.
 
Sometimes it pays to spell out what Shared Parental Responsibility is actually about as many people do not follow what it really is and how you should follow it.

2.   That subject to the orders below, each party individually has sole responsibility for making decisions concerning other aspects of the care, welfare, and development and parental responsibility of the children on a day to day basis during periods when the children are living with either of their care.

A couple I plucked from the air

Be permitted to attend all events involving the children including sporting fixtures and extra-curricular activities that allow for parental involvement as well as school functions and events such as social functions, concerts, assemblies, sports days, parent teacher interviews, class reading activities  and canteen duty.

The parent who has the children in their care on the day of such activities is responsible for their day to day care at such events and their transportation

Do everything required by the Australian Passport Office to issue passports for the children and that;
(a)   The children are free to travel overseas with the respective parent
(b)   14 days notice of intention to travel shall be given to the other parent
(c )   An itinerary with address details and contact phone number shall be provided not less that 14 days prior to travel

That the Mother and the Father be and are hereby restrained from:
(a) Changing the children's names to any other names either by common usage or legally, other than the names currently appearing on the children's Birth Certificates.
(b) Changing their telephone number or address without first notifying the other party of such change and providing a new telephone number.

Orders need to be precise, clear and cover the main issues.

DO NOT try and raise a document with more than say 5 A4 pages of orders. They won't happen. Look at the large numbers of judgements on the site here. There are many good ones and look at the sort of orders that are being made.

ORDERS are set up, or attempt to set up a regime where the parents will begin to properly engage in parenting and they DO NOT cater from every small tiny circumstance that will turn up. They are not expected to be a complete exhaustive literary work. They need to be workable, workable, workable and able to be clearly followed by BOTH parents.

There is no point in accepting an order that will simply not work so it is important MUCH thought goes into orders BOTH in INTERIM orders (which are generally fairly brief, and most definitely in FINAL orders.

As a percentage in any case (Excluding Court time) orders creation should take about 35% - 40% of the time in my experience. About 30 % on Affidavits and the rest on forms, correspondences and telephone communications with the Registry, Courts info line and related communications.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
Guest said
….I have already filed three affidavits. Am I supposed to file another affidavit specifically for the LAT?
Three seems a lot before you have even got to a final hearing. How have you managed to file three affidavits in an Interim hearing? Are they all different? How will you file an affidavit in response to a family report that you haven't had yet. If required you would probably do that after you get the report but hopefully there will be some good things in the report that you can use. There is much on the site about Family Reports. Use the search engine.
Guest said
..This is the list I received from the Court to be filed before the case management hearing:

 A statement of the issues in contention; - how is this presented and filed?
 Details of affidavits/witnesses that are proposed for the final
 hearing;
Assessment of the hearing time required. - I have no idea? 2-3 days is this realistic?

as well as the parenting questionnaire.

Please can I have some assistance.
Statement of issues in Affidavit form should be adequate relying also on previous affidavits already filed.

A case outline will assist in working out what witnesses you propose to call. I assume you are preparing affidavits form any witnesses you need. If you have others writing an affidavit they have to be available for examination on the dates set.

The solicitors on the other side would specify the time but expect two or three days if nothing special. You will have set out the orders you are seeking in the final hearing forms which are on the Courts web site.






Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
I really appreciate the help.

Three all different. Primary affidavit 150 pages. Other two brief. One that I had to filed quickly after receiving her responding affidavit one hour after the deadline which contained a blantant and very provable exaggeration. A third affidavit responding to the rest of the her second affidavit.

It's a psychiatric family report because of the baseless claims as is the general rule about putting the father on the back foot. Not worried at all. In fact looking forward to it if there's any element of mediation involved. The assessment in early June and LAT hopefully July with case management meeting in late June. This should give me time to file a further affidavit on this matter.

I have been reading and will continue to read. There was an article about the woman who lost custody due to psychological abuse telling them to hate their father and more.  Well there's more than an element of that in this case and better still she has admitted it in her affidavit althought she didnt realise that. I like to see her get out of this one!
Have you considered applying for the record for the longest affidavit. I have never come close to seeing an affidavit of 150 pages in an Interim hearing. How do you think the court is going to deal with that?


Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
I dont know that was a long affidavit.

The body is only eight pages. Because mostly the case started in the UK and with six inquiries I demanded with the authorities into how she was so able to exploit their systems with such ease plus several emails. It's mostly annexures and organised for ease but all relevent. I have written around sixty letters that could all been submitted which would added at least another 200 pages bit chose not to for simplicity.

I have sought to be up front and not hidden anything so to expedite this for the children. I am not interested in springing some sort of late trap as this would not be in the interests of the children. Better to encourage her to seek mediation knowing there are fatal flaws in her affidavit. Although she is so aggressive and bullying so doesn't she it that way.
Guest… Can you sign in using your nickname? Hard to follow matters when nicknames aren't used.

You've put together orders i your final orders application, yes? Type the orders in a separate piece of paper, date, name, sign, put "Minute Of Orders" of the top - and hey presto - you're got minutes of orders!

4MYDAUGHTER
Here I am as Frank.

I did put broad orders in the response to the initiating appiication because they put no orders in their initiating application other that to say 'as determined by the court'.

Thanks for the help above. I will put a further detailed order together.

But to be clear they will not be consent orders unless they are in the best interests of the children because my former partner has been emotionally abusing them on two counts that she admits in her affidavits. She doesnt realise that she admits this is because she doesnt realise she's doing it. Thats the problem and so without proper intervention by the Court it will continue and in the best interests of the children I must try and stop as soon as possible.

Should I include any precedents in the, hopefully, final affidavit with respect to psychological abuse of children through encouraging them to repeat allegations over and over again that the mother indeed admits are not accurate?

The story from Victoria about the mother who brainwashed her children to repeatedly say they hated the father is in a similar class.
@Frank.. r u the one with twins?

You don't cited precedents in your affidavit. What goes in a affidavit is things YOU have WITNESSED FIRST-HAND.

Citations would go in your Outline of Case.

4MYDAUGHTER
frank said
There was an article about the woman who lost custody due to psychological abuse telling them to hate their father and more.  Well there's more than an element of that in this case and better still she has admitted it in her affidavit althought she didnt realise that. I like to see her get out of this one!

It can go the other way too though Frank, so don't be too assured. Indeed the variations in judgements for such issues can depend on a wide range of things.. and even be affected by things like which decision maker you get on which day, and which mood they are in and what they had for breakfast. In other words, you can never be certain.

Look at this story as an extreme opposite example. A woman openly admits to causing the children to fear their once loved father, yet she is granted full care.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/mother-wins-custody-despite-delinquent-attitude-20110103-19duh.html

@4mydaughter

No twins here although that would be nice.

Sorry for all the rookie questions, but is the 'ouline of case' the same thing as 'the statement of issues in contention'? Sounds like it but can't be sure.

@rabbit

Thanks for the advice. I will have to think about.

But I will say there has been no other avenue in which I can raise concerns about the mother's, I believe admitted in her own affidavits on two counts, psychological abuse of the children other than the court. Social services who I approached first both here and the UK summarilly rounded on me and treated me worse than a criminal because at least a criminal is given a right to defend themselves whereas I was essentially convicted absentia.

I have no choice but to refuse any out of court settlement and go to trial because otherwise the mother will continue to harm the children because she doesn't know she's doing it. It is not in the best interests of the children to not have this matter raised. I just hope I dont get shot down.

Her aggression toward me is far outweighing the need to care for the children properly and in fact is directly damaging them. I'm not saying she's a bad mother, she's a good mother otherwise but needs to separate her aggression toward me from the welfare impact it's clearly having on the children.
Frank said
….
I have no choice but to refuse any out of court settlement and go to trial because otherwise the mother will continue to harm the children because she doesn't know she's doing it. It is not in the best interests of the children to not have this matter raised. I just hope I dont get shot down.
There are always compromises and choices. Most cases that go to the Families Court settle with some sort of compromises turned into orders. It can be an expensive and extraordinarily slow haul.
Frank said
….Her aggression toward me is far outweighing the need to care for the children properly and in fact is directly damaging them. I'm not saying she's a bad mother, she's a good mother otherwise but needs to separate her aggression toward me from the welfare impact it's clearly having on the children.
Pity you can't work some sort of package out. Be aware that a Court may not give you what you want either.


Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
Thanks for the advice. I know it's a tightrope I'm walking but my priority is the children's emotional welfare. It's my responsibility to minimise the impact it's having on them. Long-term pyschological problems including mental issues and substance abuse are not in the realm of the courts but I will have to watch and deal with these very real potential risks.

My problem is if the mother's psychological abuse of them is not addressed as soon as possible then it will continue because she simply is unaware that she's doing it. That's why she has openly admitted it in her affidavits. She doesn't understand the implications of her actions on the children. She always had a short-sighted view of life and consequences are not something she comprehends because her temper overrrides any rational thought. There's no middle ground with her and any attempt to establish middle ground only makes her more extreme. That's why we are in court.

I'd rather lose access time with them that allow this to continue although I am aware that I may lose on both counts. I take the this most seriously because it's the foundation of their lives that is being compromised and they only have one childhood and only one chance and it's not too late.
1 guest and 0 members have just viewed this.

Recent Tweets