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View topic: Have I crossed a line here? – Family Law Web Guide
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Have I crossed a line here?

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Its still a silver bullet but once you get one out in your name your put on employment restrictions, as in no weapons no deployments no access to arms or ammuntion and that stays active until you see it through.
You really need to start the ball rolling legally sooner rather than later, as your ex is using stalling tactics against you, to more firmly entrench the status quo.

I know you are going to fight for your country, but you need to fight for your kids and you need to start fighting for them now, because it may be too late to start fighting for them, when you return.  This will just give your ex more time to brainwash the children into what a deadbeat you are, even though we know you are not.

Go and see a solicitor now and get things moving, no more Mr Nice Guy, these women that do this remind me of Lucy, Charlie Brown and the football, which is why everytime you say you are going to fight, she stonewalls you until you back down.  You need to start treating her as the enemy she really is.

Our legal system annoys me no end, why should a parent have to fight to see their own children, it is disgusting.
AVOs

This is how it works in NSW - I think it is the same in Queensland.

When you turn up at court the police prosecutor will approach you and try and get you to consent to the AVO without you making admissions. It is their way of shortening the workload. The prosecutor will probably not have looked at your file..

It will probably be an AVO day in the court - everyone will be there for an AVO.

Your prosecutor will either be someone who knows the score and readily accepts that you say 'show cause' or you will get a indoctrinated and dogmatic constable, who is fresh from domestic abuse training and carries their domestic violence bag as a sign of this. They will hate you for two reasons:

  1. you are male; and
  2. you will not consent to an AVO.


YOU WILL OF COURSE NOT CONSENT


In reality you have to prove your innocence. Make it clear it is family law reality. Make it clear you are military and about to go to the Stan.

Magistrates are waking up to what 'angelic single mums' will and do. I have heard some Magistrates (female) rip in to them for abusing the process.

Good luck




Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas. 
So if she does go through with it when will I be served and how long from the time she applies until I get served......oh and how will I be served will it be police or a court service clerk? Thanks again for all your advice this whole process is suddenly a little bit less daunting.
If the police make the application they will serve you with a copy and summons. The police will only file an application on her behalf if they are satisfied the evidence meets the civil standard of proof.

If she makes an application through the court house the court will issue the summons. Where I live (rural small town) the police serve those on behalf of the court which is in the nearest regional town.

Usually courts and the police set the first date to when the next court DVO day is. So the police will try to locate you pretty quickly.
Further to Monteverdi's post:

I have made numerous posts about AVO matters on these forums in the past. There are three options that may avail themselves to you at the local court.

Undertakings where you (and she) agree to be nice to each other and not to molest or upset each other, for a while at least. You might be amiable to a joint undertaking where you both agree on a note to each other. Police in NSW have been instructed not to accept these where at all possible.

Orders without admission - Where you agree to have an order but do not admit any "guilt". DO NOT accept one of those.

Orders made - That is the Magistrate believes the story to be a reasonable story and that the person does have some fears. If you are NOT represented by counsel you can have an opportunity to ask to be represented for a later hearing. Usually things are fairly hectic on AVO day so what normally happens is that if you do not agree to an AVO then a hearing is required and it will be set down for a later date (Although in some cases it has been heard later the same day) while the interim AVO (which will have been part of the Police delivery of documents) is extended until the hearing date. At the hearing you will need to get proper representation. Definitely try to avoid one of these.

In any event, the issuing of any interim order by Police will see your gun licence suspended if it is noted on the order. In fact on most interim AVO's where there are allegations the complaint usually includes some story about the guns which are usually surrendered or the police just turn up one day when you may not be home and gas axe the gun safe open. I have a recent case where the father was simply at his parents house just a few minutes away from the family home. The complainant mother let the police in who simply destroyed the safe. A phone call to the father would have resulted in keys being delivered to open the expensive safe. Insane behaviour but not unexpected. I would suggest you consider moving the guns to a secure storage facility such as may be offered by the gun club or other club member rather than leave them in the arms safe at home. You will need to advise the licence authority of the change to location.

It costs money and time to get the guns back from the Police who may or may not take good care of them. I would ensure they are carefully wrapped in clear plastic or gun bags with seals.

Just as a note if you do get served and have to attend court a legal representative, coupled with a properly crafted affidavit from you, could well negotiate something with the Police Prosecutor on the day of first appearance. I have found some to be quite reasonable when presented with proper material and evidence that the situation was a storm in a teacup with no physical violence and where steps have been taken to resolve issues. One thing also to be mindful of is that you are dealing with a third party once one of these applications is made by Police. That is you cannot negotiate with the mother and expect any solution. You have to negotiate with the Police. To that end, they can choose to bring the matter back again and again at their pleasure as they have unlimited money and resources (Although they tell you they don't) so it pays to sort things out as early as possible and be clear on what should happen so that things can be resolved earlier than later. I had one case that we were brought back five times over six months which costs around 6k in legal attendances. The matter was dropped in the end when the Magistrate was fed up and the parties went to the Federal Magistrates court to resolve parenting and property issues.
Proudfather said
I haven't seen my children for over a month now, we have a parenting plan which isn't being honoured and I've sent numerous emails these last few weeks requesting to see our children. I don't have her phone number and she has requested before that I don't come around to her house for any reason ever. So I showed up at her work this morning to see if I could talk with her face to face and now she's claiming that I have been intimidating her and she can't handle talking to me at all.
It is one thing where there is genuine violence and physical abuse and it is another where parents cannot communicate to resolve parenting issues. Reading the earlier posts in this thread it is way past time you got some proper orders so get your 60I and file in the Federal Magistrates Court. It costs very little to file and you can use the kit on their web site to get things going. You are wasting your time negotiating with this person who refuses to give you any contact, who refuses to discuss and child related matters. Simply file and get some orders. Anything else is a complete waste of time in these sorts of cases. You have had your mediation which was entirely unsuccessful and now she is telling you to "get lost".

Is there some other take home message you are waiting for ? I would be wary of too many emails and texts etc. as they are grounds for an AVO.

You mentioned also in a post should you contact the local police. It doesn't hurt and you could go down there in your uniform and mention there are some discussions going on between you and her to resolve contact issues and that you are in the process of filing a matter. At least they will be aware that there is a family matter to be filed and only a fool would miss the fact that emotions will be running high. (High enough to warrant actions to get some advantageous position).

Keep us informed as to progress..




Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
NEVER Agree to an AVO or DVO. FIGHT them and POINT out in court that it is being sought for family law reasons. Have explanation or witness for everything possible.
I really feel for you mate. You don't appear to have crossed the line but your occupation makes you an easy target for false allegations. Can I say that you wont be able to get your kids back with a Lawyer and a fist full of money. It probably wont make much difference that you are going away to fight terrorists as she would just continue with what she is doing now to stop you if you were to stay here and fight. How old are your girls? Are they is school? If so as there are no orders in place you could drop by and catch up with them there.
My children are nearly one (next week) and nearly 3 (april) so they are still young. I've approached their daycare center and asked to see them there i'm on their emergency contact list but they refused to let me see them which is understandable.

I recieved an email just now from my ex stating a few interesting things. She basically painted a fairly graphic word picture about me ambushing her at work, making her feel intimidated, threatened etc, which to me the way it's said seems like it's an open ended statement designed to either get me to admit to harrassing her or at the other end of the spectrum provoke me into making a silly mistake. Which in all seems to be the running theme of all our communication to date.

Tactically for her it would seem shes intent on bumping me out of the picture by either making it so hard for me that I give up or get angry and make a really bad mistake giving her a reason to have me dvo/avo'd.

So it would seem even though she has invited me to talk to her in relation to this (with no chance of seeing the kids) that I don't have many options other than court. I have my 60I I have tried talking with her and towing the line, I've tried every negotiating tactic and skill I was taught in all the shared parenting courses I've done (me 3 her nil) I don't have much time before my deployment so I'm re-engaging with my lawyer and getting them to send her a formal letter outlining my intentions and asking her to talk and negotiate before actually filing a case.

So now the only real problem is the fact that I will be out of the country until nearly the start of next year. If I give my Mother enduring powers of attorney and pay the lawyer and input with either emails or letters when I can, can the case go ahead or do I need to be here for appearances and such?

Once again thankyou to everyone for their input, just by reading and learning my confidence is growing.
The Court will be understanding that you are a service man serving overseas. For some reason Magistrates and judges love military people!

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas. 
As the old saying goes "you don't negotiate with terrorists", the time for playing nice is done, she is clearly not acting in the best interests of the children, so talking will be futile.

Get your solicitors to commence court proceedings, because you have obviously tried mediation and it has failed.  It is their job to advise you how best to proceed with things in your absence, because it will take some time to get things done.  If you leave it until you get back, it could be well into 2014 before you see a result and you don't have that time, because by then you will be staring down the barrel of supervised introductory visits to reestablish your relationship, whereby, you could be getting some form of contact established now, even iti if using skype or some other form of communication.

Has by chance your ex repartnered?
The best result you can get whilst away is for your mother to develop a good relationship with the ex. It might be better for you leave the legal stuff and just let your mother try to make it happen? Otherwise it's your mother fighting the ex instead of you and I can't see too much being achieved given the ex's attitude.

Perhaps propose to the ex if your mother can see the girls whilst you are away to read them letters from you or get Skype up and running etc…. so you can chat to and see them in real time. This would be a much better option than going to court or sending lawyers letters as the ex will probably run.

The success of your mother will depend on how much family your ex has around her and if she will warm to the idea of your mother helping out.

Otherwise if you want to be a father to your girls you need to make radical changes to your life like finding work where you can be there for them 100% if needed. If not then you will always be at the whim of the ex re your girls.
proudfather, re that email she sent you embellished with descriptions of your "crime" of contacting her. I would recommend that you dont reply to it, lest it be misinterpreted as an admission of guilt in her AVO application.

I support monte's advice, admit to nothing, and get proceedings started. It took us a full year to get before the court to see the kids after care was with held. If you have to communicate with her, a lawyer is the safe option. Costly, yes, but safe.
my strong suggestion is not to wait or use mother as fairgo suggested. Start legal proceedings now with your side asking for letters, skype, phone or whatever is available with time with children to start immediately your return. Court can be very slow timewise so you may even be back before anything really gets decided even if you would have never left.DO NOT let her provoke you.
A DVO or AVRO whatever it may be called in your state will NOT effect your weapon usage as Defence personnel. Defence actually have rules etc in PACMAN pertaining to that. This I can assure you as my ex has an AVRO and he is Defence. He has full access to weapons, has deployed and at no time has he been restricted in a any way - except of course in his dealins with me or the children.

"When we long for life without difficulties, remind us that oaks grow strong in contrary winds and diamonds are made under pressure"
PACMAN can be fairly lack lustre in its descriptions of what you can and can't do at the best of times however I made a few inquires about what would happen to me and yes I would basically be set aside until it was sorted out. Thats just a military administration thing.

So far so good but no calls from the police no approaches or anything. I didnt respond to her email other than to ask if i could see the kids before i go and if i could see my youngest on her 1st birthday (today). No reply so no access.

I'm resigned to the fact that I wont see them for over a year now. I have approached my lawyer given her the go ahead and signed the cost agreement so a letter will be sent to the ex soon.

And I have stowed all my weapons in the armoury at work so I basically have no access to them until I return anyway.

I think she has backed down simply becaue she's got what she wants and thats me out of the picture for an extended period of time.

I'd love to leave my job but unfortunately I couldn't make neds meet if i did and i certainly couldnt fight this woman.

Off to Townsville and then the Ghan and although i'll be fighting for my country the real fight doesn't start until I get back and then I'll haqve the money and resources to really make this work.
Hopefully it all works out for you and you kids in the end. I think it's really sad you won't get to see the kids before you go. Can't understand why a mother could do that to her own children, especially when their Dad will be away for so long.
If you're Arms Corps you will frequently face restrictions on weapons issues/ammo/explo etc. Every armoury/controlled stores area is supposed to maintain a 'do not issue item x/y/z to the following people…'. It's normally promulgated by MP's. I can't imagine your Bn taking you off a deployment for this. The document you need to read to establish the possible effects on you militarily is the eDSM, not PACMAN. Several DI's will also be of importance. Search for it (eDSM) on DRN if need be but there's a link on the DRN home page. I'm fairly conversant with ADF policy so if you need any help with the military specifics let me know and I'll do what I can to help.
I suggested you ask your mother to assist as she will be able to see your kids whilst you are away and she does have some rights in this matter as a significant other person in the lives of the children.

Anything can happen during the year. The ex can repartner, have another baby, relocate etc… If your mother is the only person who has a chance of seeing your kids whilst you are away, you should work on this.

Given what you have said on here I doubt your ex will respond to anything you do legally, or even show up to court as you will be away and cannot do the same. The court cannot make your ex Skype you etc… however I believe it is reasonable for the court to order another significant person in the lives of the children to do so.

I suggest you try this first without the lawyer, then use the lawyer etc… but I can't see you getting much further that this whilst you are away.

Anyway good luck mate and come back alive. I'll think of you and others this ANZAC day.
The law in my state is that the local DVRO is not valid as far as use of a weapon in a service capacity. It can however restrict your usage beyond the service usage of a weapon. If your unit decides to take you off your deployment because of the issues withion your family, is that really a bad thing? Surely your children should come first? I sense an expectation that you may have in regards to access to your children in 9 months (after your deployment). You surely do not expect your ex to sit and wait and jump to your wishes. because you then come home. I do beleive that she should be more forthcoming in allowing the children more time with you but we are only hearing from you as to what has happened. There may be reasons for her behaviour. I suggest that you reconsider your deployment and put your children first.

"When we long for life without difficulties, remind us that oaks grow strong in contrary winds and diamonds are made under pressure"
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