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Ex says he wont return my son

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I have been seperated from my ex since my son was 3months old he is now almost 6. We do have consent orders made in OCT 2007,  in Jan of 2009 I moved 2hrs away with verbal consent from my ex. We made a new arrangement of 3 night per fortnight every 2nd weekend. Ex voluntary picked son up on the agreed time and returned him. But still to this day tells me he never agreed and has never then done anything about getting my son back to his town. If my son was sick and I didnt send him I have always made it up to him the next weekend and he would then have our son 2 weekends in a row. Our relationship is still very hositile, I refused to fight in front of our son.

My son started school this year, and was due to spend the 2nd week of school holidays with his father. My son in a phone call 2 nights previously said to his dad "i dont want to c you in the holidays" . On the morning of the changeover my son was refusing, shaking and making himself sick and yelling repeatedly that he didnt want to go to his dads.  Yes I made the decision to not send him that day but when I spoke to his dad I did inform him that I would be sending our son on Thursday and will pick him up on Tuesday as he is in a catholic school and they go back on the Wed.

On changeover tonight I said to our son Mummy will see you on Tuesday. My exs reply was "he wont be here f****n tuesday" I informed him he has school on wed thurs and fri, his reply "well good luck to you, you will see him when I decide to f****n return him, you didnt pay attention to the court orders why should I." He was standing right beside our son while swearing at me.

This to me is more about retailiation then wanting to spend the time with our son. I get that his is upset about not getting him for the whole time in the consent orders.

So if he doesnt return him on Tuesday where do I stand. My son has school and dont think that by getting back at me, our son should be missing school even if his is in kinder. And no indication of when he may return him either.
Once you start straying from court orders, you're inviting all sorts of confusion and chaos. No, I don't think your son should have to miss school as a result of retaliation, but I think you have to realise your ex will be seeing this completely different. He had plans to spend time with his son, presumably drove the two hours to pick him up, only to be confronted with son rejecting the visit, and you making an executive decision to allow that. Bam, just like that, his plans are ruined, he's leaving without his son, he loses precious time that the law says he's entitled to, and he can't do a thing about it. Shoe on the other foot, and you'd be cranky too. You have to ask yourself WHY your son was so opposed to going, and if there's no real reason it's likely just a case of the jitters. With no concerns for his safety, the law requires you to make every effort to encourage him and make him available for collection, regardless of whether he wishes to go or not. If he put on the same kind of show about not wanting to go to school, I don't believe you'd say "Ok, you can stay home today", and nor should you do this with his visits to Dad. Your ex probably feels that you undermined his authority as a parent, and unfortunately, now that your son knows this will work, this probably won't be the last of it.

If the child is not returned to you as per the court order, the only way to have him legally retrieved is to file a recovery order with the court. This is a serious undertaking involving a federal mgistrate and police - not a thing to be entered into lightly. If there was no reason for his actions, a recovery order would be the logical step. However, under the circumstances, you have also contravened the orders, and you know full well that is WHY your ex is alluding to keeping the child longer. I'd suggest that you may be better off actually apologising and explaining you found it hard to see your son so upset and caved in - and you were wrong to do so. You may then be in a better position to appeal to his sense of reason and ask that he bring your son home in time for the school start in return for make-up time at his convenience. I personally think that it wouldn't hurt a child to miss the first 3 days of school (considering it's not a full week) in order to spend precious time with his Dad that he has missed out on, and if you offered him that at least you'd know when to expect your child back.

You have denied court ordered time to your son's father, who is of equal importance in his life both legally and otherwise. You have disempowered him by placing your authority over his, when you have no right to do so. You are now upset when he threatens to do the same, and presumably looking for legal avenues to stop him. Don't forget you are susceptible to legal actions too, and may face contravention proceedings if you continue to go against the court orders. Try to be reasonable and understand why things have come to this, and accept reponsibility for making a mistake. This is your best shot at a positive outcome.

If you are really desperate, you could fax him a letter on the Monday or Tuesday, and word it as an official warning of your intent to issues recovery orders should the child not be returned by the appropriate time/date. Sometimes a well worded bluff is enough to frighten someone into acting. This may work, but it's also likely to continue the animosity, and you may find that if he is angered by this, he may well return your son on Tuesday and then decide to file a contravention application against you for the previous incident. That's why I believe you're better off apologising and negotiating. Good luck. 
What we have here is a failure to communicate...

4MYDAUGHTER
Unfortunately as we have a just civil relationship as when ever i open my mouth i get abused so I speak only when neccessary. So apoligisng and try to negotiate is not going to happen as it just doesnt work. Since we have been seperated, he has tried to prove that he is top dog. I moved and therefore I travel 2 hours to ensure he sees his son. Most times my son goes to his dads without a hitch, even gets excited at going. But on those times he doesent he is still made to go, is reassured about going to daddys and encourgaed.

My ex has just recently had a baby and sadly still tells my son negative things about me and calls me names, this is the reason he did not want to go. On last visit after my sons half sister was born, he was excited and told his dad that he cant wait for mummy to have a baby, his fathers reply was "noboby loves your mother and no-one wants to have a baby with her, thats why you dont have another daddy."

I understand what I did and accept the responsibility. But this circle is one that wont end, if I do a good turn for him sadly I dont get it repayed.
The birth of a child to the non lives with parent often triggers many emotions and consequences not previously expected.

Sometimes these are subconcious to the child … sometimes not.

It would not be a normal child if they didnt feel like the non lives with parent will love /like them anymore as they have a new child that lives with them now.

This same  type of situation plays out in  couples who are not seperated also.

The arrival of a new child in an intact couple causes  great anxieties for the older child often resulting in jealousies etc sometimes even played out.

Encourage more contact so your child understands they are equally loved by the non lives with parent as the new child. Encourage a bond  for your  child to there new sibling, remembering they have a right to a healthy happy relationship with that new sibling as much as if you had another child they would have a right to a healthy relationship with that child.

Even if you are just civil with the ex and the ex says bad things about you they will soon work out it comes to nought if you extend the hand of friendship to them.

I'm not saying go over with dinner a few nights a week  or becoming ex's partners new best friend.

Yes it does take two to tango however someone still has to take the first step and your ex will soon realise saying bad things about you gets them nowhere with your child if your child sees you not being the person youre ex describes.

as you have been through the court process already I am sure you do not wish to waste  thousands of dollars coming to a decision you can work out between youreselves that would be more workable than  one made by an old man or woman who is not in touch with reality.

I also doubt you would want youre ex to spend monies on solicitors etc that could be better spent on your child and the relationship with your child's new sibling.

Dont listen to negative advice from friends or family etc remember they will more often than not never say to you that they feel you are being unreasonable.

your decision is simple either encourage or not encourage your child's relationship with there new sibling.

Consider how your child will feel about this decision when they are an adult.

consider what happens if you repartner with someone and have a child or they already have a child and  what you want the relationship to be between your child and the new sibling from that relationship.

something to think about

You can fool some of the people some of the time but you cant fool all of the people all of  the time unless they work for CSA and youre a Payee:)
My ex has been in this relationship for over 2yrs she has been coming to changeover for the entire time, I have yet to be introduced to her, as she doesnt even get out of the car.  As for the new baby only when she was born did my son come home and tell me he has a baby sister. As my ex had never said anything to me, nor had my son mentioned there was going to be a baby. Now for a child to not mention something like that umm!! I asked my ex about this new baby our son was talking about only to be told none of my business. For the first time a fortnight after the babies birth did the partner get out of the car with the baby.

I encourge my child to see his dad and his family everyday, every phone call.  My son isnt allowed to bring a bag with his ds, toys, colouring book or reading books with him to go to his dads, not even his pillow or a toy he likes to snuggle in bed. My son tells me if he talks about me or my family daddy will ring the police and put mummy in jail. My ex isnt even excited to see his son on changeover, no hello, or happy birthday mate, just say goodbye get in the car,lets go.

On many occassions I have tried to have lets talk, maybe have a coffee but every time, he thinks Im trying to get back with him and tells me to move on.

I know im not perfect and i play my part but I am doing the best for my son as I can, no matter what i do its just never the right move in my exs eyes. This is the first time I have well and truly contravened the orders, and dont believe that keeping him from school does to wrongs make it right, he didnt want to try and negoiate, just abuse and get back at me.

my ex is truly aware that I am unable to have more children, so putting that thought into our sons head, well i dont get it..
All the advice you are getting is to wait and see how things go.
Being nice when someone is always negative is difficult. I was in the same situation and persisted for 15 years with always being the negative one in my ex husbands eyes. My sons are grown men now and make their own choices. They now see how things were with both myself and their father and keep closer to me as a consequence.
They do see and speak to him, but even now he still blames me for anything not right in his life and we have been divorced 16 years and apart longer.
No matter what it is usually better to try for the sake of harmony for the child as they do need to know both halves of themselves even if sometimes they would rather not.
I am 30 years old and my mum still speaks down about my Dad. Yeah, he did some wrong things to her and I wholeheartedly think they were plain wrong. And I only see him rarely (for Christmas).

But when she even starts her rants, I nip it in the bud and tell her to stop right there, I do not want to hear it. I agree with her and all, but I hate it when she tries to put it all on me. And I'm 30!!!
rabbit said
….If you are really desperate, you could fax him a letter on the Monday or Tuesday, and word it as an official warning of your intent to issues recovery orders should the child not be returned by the appropriate time/date. Sometimes a well worded bluff is enough to frighten someone into acting. This may work, but it's also likely to continue the animosity, and you may find that if he is angered by this, he may well return your son on Tuesday and then decide to file a contravention application against you for the previous incident. That's why I believe you're better off apologising and negotiating. Good luck.
The success rate in filing a contravention application ( A recovery order will be a waste of time as the child will be returned before the ink on the application is even dry.) is remote UNLESS the child is not returned at all.

You can bully and threaten but it will probably be a waste of time and is what the father is expecting as he is unhappy and wants his say over the short changed holiday. He has missed out on 5 nights contact from what I can see here. (Supposed to have half school holidays so should have had child on Sat night last week.) Probably an (very short to the point) email or fax to remind the father that the child is required to attend school on Wednesday. (That is not your requirement that is the Governments /Education department requirement.). I would probably suggest that you might say you will provide the uniform if he will collect before Wednesday or alternately you could attend school in the morning and change the boy into his school uniform before school commences, if the father prefers that as an option…

I think as time goes on and providing you have as little contact with the ex as possible and only have contacts and communication in relation only to the issues about the child then the hostility should subside. He should be busy also concerning himself with the new child and therefore less focus on the ills of the old relationship which is clearly problematic. These things can take many years to dissipate. Do your best for the child , keep to the court orders you have agreed to and I suggest as you have moved in Jan of 2009 2hrs away with verbal consent only from your ex that this is a situation that is untidy and not set out in concrete so both parties know what is to be expected. I would have thought you might have made a formal notation to be added to the existing orders by consent.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
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You can bully and threaten but it will probably be a waste of time and is what the father is expecting as he is unhappy and wants his say over the short changed holiday.

If only I could have put it this simply and succinctly! :P This is exactly what I was getting at, and what you said about recovery orders makes a lot of sense.

Red, if the father continues to be negative toward you, that doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't bother to apologise or attempt to negotiate when the situation calls for it. You can still set a positive example for your child, even if you know it won't be accepted. At least you have done your part then. As for the nasty comments about you, and the refusal to allow discussion of you, or toys/items from your house etc, we have the same issue, and as Leroy said, kids eventually work out that the suggestions the other parent makes do not fit with the child's personal experience of you, and they can learn to disregard that. I think the key is to show very little concern or fuss, just a simple "well that's not nice, is it?" or a calm correction of wrong information. If you see that the behaviour is wrong, seperate yourself from it and consistenly provide an alternative example. Your actions will speak for themselves in the longrun, as will his if he keeps this up. You can't control his attitude, so concentrate on yours, and your child will figure it out.
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