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Can anyone say how you spend your time with the child?

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My husband has an order draft written up by the mothers solicitor. Absent from these orders but existent in my husbands initial proposal was a paragraph relating to Each parent has day to day responsibility of the child whilst the child is in their care. The current order draft ONLY states that each parent has shared equal responsibility.

 The only restriction is one paragraph says the father can spend time with the child in ***** town. (he travels 700kms to see his child). No other paragraphs about contact on holidays or weekends specify a place.

History is, the mother has told my husband what he cant do or where he cant go while the child is with him. ie, she didnt want my husband driving for 5 hours with the child, and didnt want the child staying anywhere but the childs home town. She has told him that she is to determine what the childs best intersts are, and not my husband.

We dont want to be restricted by omitting this particular point on spending time with the child at our own discretion.
Is this point vital to include in orders? or is it a given that the mother cannot tell the father what he can or cant do or where he can or cannot go when the child is 'living with the father'?
I used to travel about 500kms to see my son on alternate visits, except for orders, covering just that very weekend, drawn up immediately at the court, to regain contact, which included staying in the LGA (this didn't bother me at all as it was just the one 4 hour stint of contact), there was never any such restriction. I believe that this restriction to a town is unwarranted and an act of control or perhaps an effort by the solicitor to provoke an ongoing scenario to fill the solicitor's pocket. I believe the restriction contradicts the essence of shared equal responsibility, that is unless the other parent also accepts the same restriction.

I'd wait until the SRL's respond, however I would not agree to this and insist that the restriction is withdrawn. My guess is that under normal circumstances this could easily be contested if the matter went to a court.
Fiorelli said
My husband has an order draft written up by the mothers solicitor. Absent from these orders but existent in my husbands initial proposal was a paragraph relating to Each parent has day to day responsibility of the child whilst the child isintheir care. The current order draftONLY states that each parent has shared equal responsibility.
Get the original order put back, as it may avoid a number of future conflicts.
Fiorelli said
We dont want to be restricted by omitting this particular point on spending time with the child at our own discretion.

Is this point vital to include in orders? or is it a given that themother cannot tell thefatherwhat he canor cant do or where he can or cannot go when the child is 'living with the father'?
No it is not a given, but it could become an argument in Court, example the Mother starts making arrangements for activities when the child is with the Father.
It is such a standard order, we wonder why it was left out.

It is not unusual in some conflict situations to include an order "Neither parent shall make any appointments or arrangements for the child that would interfere with the other parents time spent with the child".

SRL-Resources. the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) www.srl-resources.org  Non gender Professional and peer support for SRLs. Closed site, no public forums, no search engines, no lurkers, guests or the other side and their Lawyer and Friends.
Thank you for your responses.

My husband has told the solicitor that he wants his original paragraph in the orders.

Another point that has come to  mind is the solicitors draft only contained points of where "the father will give no less than 28 days notice of which option he intends…"

No where in the orders does it say even once that the mother shall respond within that time frame also.

My concern is, if the father gives his 28 days notice of certain dates, there is no provision of the mother actually agreeing to that particular date. My husband just provides notice, and then what?

Would we be on the right track in asserting that the mother also responds within that time frame?
Sometimes you are better of reducing the intended time frame to a reasonable amount of time and ignoring getting into tit for tat response.

You could word it as " both parents to give 14 days "

Although it's saying the same thing it will seem better than getting caught in a " if we have to she has too " conflict.

Don't forget if this draft is from her lawyer he is working in his clients best interest to inconvenience your partner.

You should also look for specific confirmation of request probably seven days after request. This gives lea way to make alternate arrangements.
Response in writing if you need to keep records for possible later court dates.

SLR-R has already responded so wait to see if they can give more precise advice in this regard.

All best D4E
D4E said
SLR-R has already responded so wait to see if they can give more precise advice in this regard.

All best D4E

The majority of our responses are in the closed members forums or 'one on one' to SRL-R members. This is especially important when too many case details are being revealed in a Googlable public forum.

Postings from Fiorelli seem to indicate the orders are very bitsy and every undotted 'i' and every uncrossed 't' represents a future issue.

It serves little purpose if a notice to request contact is not responded to, or an offer of an alternative date is not provided.

Lack of certainty about this issue could create further animosity between both parents about contact arrangements.



SRL-Resources. the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) www.srl-resources.org  Non gender Professional and peer support for SRLs. Closed site, no public forums, no search engines, no lurkers, guests or the other side and their Lawyer and Friends.
Perhaps I should join the SLR forum,

The orders are water tight in some places and vague in others. Perhaps a ploy to continue back and forward communication between my husband and her solicitor.

Is 14 days notice for both parents more reasonable than 28? there are 4 different time frames for notice to be given throughout the other solicitors draft. Looks like we'd have to refer to the orders each and everytime to see how much notice we need to give for that particular holiday!   My husband is requesting consist notice periods, but at this stage its 28 days.
Fiorelli,
          I'd suggest that joing the SRL-R would be a good idea. They could then possibly be an extra set of eyes, with experience of many sets or orders, that could point out other areas of concern as well as perhaps make suggestions in regards to what has been raised. Obviously they would wish to see the drafts and proposals and they have the means of doing this securely.
Joining SLR-R is the best idea.

More secure, much more specific advice and resourced.

As it sounds like they are only drafts it's important so as SLR-R have already suggested certainty regarding specific areas reduces animosity and also creates consistency and helps the child adapt.

 
After my husband said he would like to have a point included about how and where he spends his time with his child being at his discretion, the other Solicitor told him due to FL Act 65DAE there is no need to put this in the orders.  I read this, and have also checked with our solicitor prior to submission to Ex,  and would it be correct in saying the ex cannot stipulate where my husband can and cannot go, or the like during his time with his child, based on Section 65DAE?

 No it is not a given, but it could become an argument in Court, example the Mother starts making arrangements for activities when the child is with the Father.
It is such a standard order, we wonder why it was left out.
My husband put to the exe's solicitor as to whether or not his client would be able to withhold contact based on the fact that the ex'es solicitor said it was not necessary to include,  The solicitor then told my husband that he is asking for legal advice that he is not prepared to give.

It was not legal advice he was seeking, it was a question in relation to what his client intends by ommitting the point.

I found this patronising, personally I guess. The ex solicitors also said that upon seeking legal advice my husband would learn that the ex does not need to respond to the notice in those time frames and all my husband needs to do is notify her in of his intention to spend time pursuant of the orders.  However some of the contact times set out in the orders are rather ambiguous therefore I cant see how EACH and EVERY time my husband wants to see his child he only needs to give 14 days or 28 days notice and "Woolah!" He can, and the mother just has to do it.  I suppose this could also work in our favour.

I have not yet joined SRL as yet and I am posting here because we have an appt with our solicitor next week and want to make sure our solicitor and my husband are on the right track too.
I don't see where 65DAE allows for it to apply to only one parent and not the other, so for the same reason that the solicitor has supplied, my guess is that the other parent can't specify issues that are not in regard to the long term.

For interest, here's what 65DAE says :-

Family Law Act said
65DAE  No need to consult on issues that are not major long term issues
   (1)   If a child is spending time with a person at a particular time under a parenting order, the order is taken not to require the person to consult a person who:
   (a)   has parental responsibility for the child; or
   (b)   shares parental responsibility for the child with another person;
about decisions that are made in relation to the child during that time on issues that are not major long term issues.
Note:   This will mean that the person with whom the child is spending time will usually not need to consult on decisions about such things as what the child eats or wears because these are usually not major long term issues.
   (2)   Subsection (1) applies subject to any provision to the contrary made by a parenting order.



Fiorelli you do need to consider what the orders say, do not rely on information through the other lawyer, they do not tell their clients the truth so why should they tell your partner more than what they want him to agree to.

If an order states that a written application for extra time has to be responded to then the parents signing the orders agree to this, if they do not do as they have agreed then it is a breach.

Specifics are put into orders to reduce the possibility of bad habits affecting the child, there may be a pattern of agreed upon contact that is refused at point of contact, this will be evidential from the facts you record and can be introduced as the reason why this path is necessary.

Unfortunately the question your partner ask was indeed a legal question and by asking the lawyer for an answer it was seeking advice.

You need to consider what response may be forth coming with regards to a child's parent seeking they not be taken to a certain environment whilst in your care. If it can be argued the child was in a form of danger if they were taken to this environment and all reasonable requests to not put the child in harms way had been denied and positive proof was shown the environment was dangerous in aspects it could be argued in the best interests of the child permission was denied for contact with the other parent.

Including such things in orders can be done by quoting of the law to re-iterate a point rather than long passages that could be considered abrasive and detrimental to mediation and communication.

Unless the order specifies that each request for contact will be guaranteed it can be denied openly, perhaps this is why a written response affirming contact is little more than reassurance of probable contact will ensue. Any variations of factors may change this on the day which would not be considered a breach.

There may be a general assumption of the rights of the parents here which needs to be addressed by reforming this opinion into the rights of the child.

You do understand that asking questions on open forums can give the other parent access to the information contained in the posts, both posts and replies. They may read the advice you are given and prepare their response.

All best D4E  
D4E said
You do understand that asking questions on open forums can give the other parent access to the information contained in the posts, both posts and replies. They may read the advice you are given and prepare their response.

I am surprised Fiorelli has blasted so much information over the Internet. She may as well have given the opposition solicitor the web address of this site.
Conan,

I am not sure I understand how my posts could be of detriment to the consent orders we are seeking? I would have a completely different approach if we were gathering evidence and writing affidavits for final orders and revealing our angles etc. I guess I have a rather simplistic view that as these are consent orders and there is no real requirement for vigilance with concern for the 'either sides possible underhanded stratergies' in order to 'win' the case.

Maybe I am a little confused as to how solicitors opperate.

 I am getting clarification on my husbands situation, there is also nothing to say that my husband has been recieving legal advice else where.   so far its proved most helpful for me, enableing me to better understand the process and the requirements. I  I have read many other posts with much more revealing information 'blasted' on them.

However I have taken the advice on board.

Cheers

 Fiorelli
Unfortunately Fiorelli any site that may contain resources that better prepare people will be scoured by counsel of the opposition to gain knowledge and better address their clients situation, for this reason it's important people do have an understanding that the information they post may assist in defusing a strategy that prior would have been beneficial.   

It allows evidence and disassembly of your prospective evidence to be countered as well as situations resourced.

It's very easy to narrow down someone when they express specifics and use the information to advantage.

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