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dispute resolution process criteria ?

Hi all, can anyone tell me whether drug testing would or could be classed/referred to as a dispute resolution process under orders of a matter under FLA ? Or does the following rule strictly apply to FDR and other mediation type processes involving an accredited psychologist,counselor person? Thanks.
 

FEDERAL CIRCUIT COURT OF AUSTRALIA ACT 1999 - SECT 30


Rules of Court about costs of dispute resolution processes
                   The Rules of Court may make provision for or in relation to the costs of dispute resolution processes and the assessment or taxation of those costs, where:
                     (a)  the dispute resolution process was carried out under an order made, or direction given, by the Federal Circuit Court of Australia under this Act or another law of the Commonwealth; or
                     (b)  the dispute resolution process was carried out for the purpose of settling a dispute about a matter with respect to which proceedings have been instituted in the Federal Circuit Court of Australia.
fotsyfots said
Hi all, can anyone tell me whether drug testing would or could be classed/referred to as a dispute resolution process under orders of a matter under FLA ?
How can going to a drug testing facility even remotely count as any part of a mediation process under the law  (that is what you mean yes?)

If i have misunderstood then i apologise.


Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Hi Fotsyfots, not sure what you are really asking, however I can say this I have never seen a drug test to be a requirement prior to attending mediation.  I have heard of the issue coming up for parents as part of their visitation conditions and that is out of a mediator's scope , and more in line with orders perhaps.  If clients were to attend a mediation session under the influence of drugs or alcohol the mediator has the right to refuse service at that point.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers
As mentioned above fotsy, no, drug testing would not fall under any category of FDR. For clarity of what mediation is, perhaps you might want to browse information in the mediation forum.

In general, if there were orders for drug testing of a parent, in order for them to spend time with their child and/or have time reinstated, then it would be a very wise idea for that parent to follow those orders.

Note that my next comment applies only to those who have been found by the Court to be using drugs, and not necessarily fotsy as he does not state this…

Although I understand costs of drug testing can be expensive, I guess some of the reasoning for such orders being in place, which do not appear to consider expense to the party, is that as well as the need to protect the child from a drug affected parent, the drugs themselves would likely cost equivalent to, if not more, than the cost of the test.  In other words, if a person can afford drugs, then they have money to afford drug tests, especially if they now claim they are clean.

I assume there are various centres that do testing? With varying costs? Perhaps some research of the various facilities in the area, in order to find one that is more affordable, Could be an option for a parent to present to the court, if this situation applied to them.


Any opinions expressed herein are strictly for informational purposes and are never to be taken as legal advice.
Hey all , thanks for replies ( & you Mr. Wolf for keeping yours sorta non condescending )….Anyways the reason I ask would it be classed under dispute resolution process ( not mediation process ), is I can't find any mention of the testing anywhere in the FLA, Family Law Rules, Family Law Regulations nor FCCA rules etc.. Due to constantly presuming wrong before & at the hearings I thought I'd put it out there with that question as I'm assuming the legalities of the violation of ones civil right must be covered amongst the mess of governance literature.

Anyone know where about please?

~ SWAMBO, In a perfect world I'd agree with your post, but unfortunately that is far from the case in this matter.

cheers
fotsyfots said
& you Mr. Wolf for keeping yours sorta non condescending
I must be slipping :-)


Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
What rights are you talking about Fotsy? That it is against the law to order you to be drug tested? That drug testing should be agreed upon? Your post is a bit too cryptic for me to answer.

Maybe someone with better decoding skills can answer it for you?

To assist them with that, from what I understand from fotsy's posts (here & a different site)…and please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong here fotsy as I would not like to misrepresent the facts of your case….

Case has been ongoing for a number of years?
During the course of proceedings orders were made for supervised time, then later unsupervised time, being daytime visitation, no overnights?
During the course of proceedings, I'm not sure when, the court found Fotsy to be using drugs (past or present usage???) and an order was made for fotsy to submit to drug testing?
Fotsy did not follow this order, with reasons that it was unaffordable?
He also lost his job over it?
Subsequently due to breaching this order, fotsys time was suspended and final orders were made providing for sole parental responsibility to the mother and no contact to fotsy?
There could be more to the no contact order but I will not speculate.
fotsy is now appealing this decision?

Like I said fotsy, I'm not sure what you're asking, but I will say this. The best interests of the child is the paramount consideration.

If the Court have determined it is in a child's best interest to have no contact with a parent due to that parents failure to comply with orders of the court for drug testing. Arguing that the drug test was somehow against that parents human rights (?), will not diminish the Courts responsibility to upholding this principle nor to the ongoing protection of child.

In terms of orders for drug testing. The parent has a choice! Either follow the orders and see their child, or don't follow them and don't! It's really that simple!

Any opinions expressed herein are strictly for informational purposes and are never to be taken as legal advice.
If what SWAMBO says is true and you did not do court ordered drug testing and therefore lost your case why are you wasting your time with an appeal?

Unless they were hair follicle tests they are not even that expensive, I managed to get my controlled urine ones done via medicare,  why did you not do them? What drugs were they looking for, a bit of weed or something more serious?

You should have done the tests.
 

Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Fotsy, whether you did or didn't take drugs only you know the answer to that and not for us to judge.  The majority of people I speak with that have brought up the subject of drug testing have accepted the challenge and have the test done,  I can only assume it is because they are innocent of the allegation.  That leads me to my next point, that anything goes in the family law court as you may well know, basically you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.  
I agree with Wolf, doing the tests might have been the better option for you, and perhaps then you might not have to go through the inconvenience in your life now.

Cheers
Basic Instincts said
I can only assume it is because they are innocent of the allegation.
Or they knew the tests were coming and stopped having a little puff of weed in good time so as to be able to rub negative tests in their exes face  :-)


Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
SWAMBO said
What rights are you talking about Fotsy? That it is against the law to order you to be drug tested? That drug testing should be agreed upon? Your post is a bit too cryptic for me to answer.

Maybe someone with better decoding skills can answer it for you?

To assist them with that, from what I understand from fotsy's posts (here & a different site)…and please feel free to correct me where I'm wrong here fotsy as I would not like to misrepresent the facts of your case….

Case has been ongoing for a number of years?
During the course of proceedings orders were made for supervised time, then later unsupervised time, being daytime visitation, no overnights?
During the course of proceedings, I'm not sure when, the court found Fotsy to be using drugs (past or present usage???) and an order was made for fotsy to submit to drug testing?
Fotsy did not follow this order, with reasons that it was unaffordable?
He also lost his job over it?
Subsequently due to breaching this order, fotsys time was suspended and final orders were made providing for sole parental responsibility to the mother and no contact to fotsy?
There could be more to the no contact order but I will not speculate.
fotsy is now appealing this decision?

Like I said fotsy, I'm not sure what you're asking, but I will say this. The best interests of the child is the paramount consideration.

If the Court have determined it is in a child's best interest to have no contact with a parent due to that parents failure to comply with orders of the court for drug testing. Arguing that the drug test was somehow against that parents human rights (?), will not diminish the Courts responsibility to upholding this principle nor to the ongoing protection of child.

In terms of orders for drug testing. The parent has a choice! Either follow the orders and see their child, or don't follow them and don't! It's really that simple!



The Wolf said
If what SWAMBO says is true and you did not do court ordered drug testing and therefore lost your case why are you wasting your time with an appeal?

Unless they were hair follicle tests they are not even that expensive, I managed to get my controlled urine ones done via medicare,  why did you not do them? What drugs were they looking for, a bit of weed or something more serious?

You should have done the tests.
 

No you didn't as medicare do not spring for court ordered drug tests….period.
Swambo, You are pretty well on point , my issue is this supermum has milked the system of a full LSC splurge of taxpayers $ & is now on her 2nd go around according to her solicitor…..I am a useless SRL due to not eligible for aid & only have heavily mortgaged home (that i see as childs) & a shot credit history…. again that I was not solo in creating.I am nearing 50 & when we imploded I was a 1st time unemployed labourer at age of 44(worked 27 years) . I want to move on, & need to work to do so.
It simply amazes me that after exposing her lies & shameless acts of perjury & manipulation & playing the fear & sympathy cards constantly…..Why the court treats me as a criminal with no rights & apparantly less cred than a proven liar/thief/cheater. Is it really too much to ask that hey you want to refuse to see her for what she is & permit her to continue to control me emotionally & financially whilst bleating on about the evils of domestically abusive acts…..HELLO !!   Whats so " OUT there " or " utterly nuts" about saying " hey , you want him tested using such logic of " he had a shirt inside out when I seen him lst"……then fine missy but you pay the costs of.
I pleaded with them that Sat. mornings can be tested by clinic thats chain of custody & as you cant test more than once a month…..whats issue of making the call to me on 1 of those 4 fridays so as to allow me to comply within 24 hrs  ?
Fairness & humanity & respectful of my rights is all I've asked here.
Remember this judge is supposed to be helping what remnants of this broken family to ALL move on into future under different dynamic.
I am not to be tried as if commited untold criminal offences & I approached the court for help originally.
fotsyfots said
No you didn't as medicare do not spring for court ordered drug tests….period
So basically you are calling me a liar.. well let me tell you again in all caps MEDICARE PAID FOR MY TESTING. Why would i make that up? So you can post more incoherent nonsense?
As far as i am concerned your  ramblings can now go unanswered. As other people have said you are carrying on like a nutter


Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
The Wolf said
fotsyfots said
No you didn't as medicare do not spring for court ordered drug tests….period
So basically you are calling me a liar.. well let me tell you again in all caps MEDICARE PAID FOR MY TESTING. Why would i make that up? So you can post more incoherent nonsense?
As far as i am concerned your  ramblings can now go unanswered. As other people have said you are carrying on like a soap boxer.

If you didnt do the court ordered drug testing then you are  very very silly, no amount of rambling will negate a court order. It also leads to the assumption that you had drugs in your system.. a clever person would have done what i done.. and got clean tests, but we cant all be as clever as The Wolf can we? Clean tests AND paid for by medicare, Bow to me.



Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
Fotsy.

I can understand why you feel jilted by the system and are an emotional wreck at the moment. Especially in circumstances where you are not seeing your child.  

For any parent, mother or father alike, who has spent years battling it out in the Courts, as a last ditch effort, for this relationship to be taken away from them, would be heart wrenching!

The biggest issue I can see for you now fotsy, and perhaps it is in part the product of your now exhaustion with the system (?), is that you seem too fixated on your own rights, and not on those of your daughter. In Family Law parenting matters, the law is, parents have not rights. Only the children's rights are written into the law.

You said you are appealing, has this been back to Court yet?  Was your rejected offer about you being drug tested within 24 hours before Saturday time part of the appeal or the first instance judgement?

If you still have a case pending, under all circumstances, make sure that when you present your oral arguments you focus them on the rights of your daughter to a meaningful relationship with you (written into the law) and not the opposite way around (not written into the law).

Was there anything written into the orders to say that the orders will/can be revisited at a later stage?

Any opinions expressed herein are strictly for informational purposes and are never to be taken as legal advice.
fotsyfots said
  No you didn't as Medicare do not spring for court ordered drug tests…period
The link below to South Australia Health might offer you some useful information fotsy. In order for Medicare to pay for the urinalysis you may need to get a referral from your GP first?

https://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/8e72130045dc95aaaad6ea574adac1f8/Urine+Drug+Screening+21+11+2016.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=8e72130045dc95aaaad6ea574adac1f8

Perhaps The Wolf may like to elaborate a little on how he went about claiming his tests from Medicare? I'm certain the information would be very useful to others in the same position :)

Any opinions expressed herein are strictly for informational purposes and are never to be taken as legal advice.
SWAMBO said
Perhaps The Wolf may like to elaborate a little on how he went about claiming his tests from Medicare? I'm certain the information would be very useful to others in the same position :)

Jeez, It was way back in 2008 and im old :-)

I am pretty sure i went to my Doctors and said i cannot afford these is there anyway at all they can be done on medicare and he wrote me a referral under a certain medicare number  which allowed me to have the tests done in a controlled environment at the same practice (urine tests)

The rules could easily have changed now

Nothing i say should be taken as legal advice. I am not a Lawyer. If i help you it is of your own free choice to listen to what i say or not. I do not create documents for you. I do not represent you…. Purple Monkey Dishwasher
SWAMBO said
fotsyfots said
  No you didn't as Medicare do not spring for court ordered drug tests…period
The link below to South Australia Health might offer you some useful information fotsy. In order for Medicare to pay for the urinalysis you may need to get a referral from your GP first?

https://www.sahealth.sa.gov.au/wps/wcm/connect/8e72130045dc95aaaad6ea574adac1f8/Urine+Drug+Screening+21+11+2016.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=8e72130045dc95aaaad6ea574adac1f8

Perhaps The Wolf may like to elaborate a little on how he went about claiming his tests from Medicare? I'm certain the information would be very useful to others in the same position :)
My take on this link is that it is for patients who are affected by drugs, acknowledge they have a problem, are taking drugs and undergoing treatment programs. The question needs to be asked as to current policy at Medicare.

My experience is that allegations are made in first affidavit materials, court can't take any risks so orders one or both parties to commence random drug, alcohol and or substance testing. (usually supervised / requested by an ICL appointed). These test are expensive, time-consuming, need to be done under a 'Chain of Custody' test laboratory and often result in great cost and inconvenience to clients. On occasions a participant has lost employment due to the number of times they have had to have off but this is more probably due to the total time off to deal with all of the case work, FDR, and attendances.

As a general comment on this subject I have never been able to recover any costs of drug testing on any case that has come across our table. I would also suggest that if ordered and not done expect to be dealt with rather harshly and an appeal would be fraught at the very least simply because a party failed to do what they were ordered to do.. You will need to find other technical reasons for an appeal.

 




Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
Thanks Sec for bringing more light onto the matter as to costs.

I'm just wondering, however, if a parent were in the same position as fotsy is now I.e has Final Orders for not contact due to not following the court ordered drug tests, if the final assumption made by the court of that parent being drug affected when making the orders (due to that parent failing to follow the orders) could somehow be mitigated by that parent committing to undertake such a program like that offered at SA health?

Perhaps not in appeal, but maybe, as a future R&A argument?

Of course, it would have been much easier had the tests been done when asked while the case was running…

Any opinions expressed herein are strictly for informational purposes and are never to be taken as legal advice.
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