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What is the point!

What's the point of having all these different ways to try and keep people safe?! Every state has a DVO type thing. WHY aren't they taken more into consideration thoughout the different courts!? WHY aren't the courts in sync!?

Glorious said
What's the point of having all these different ways to try and keep people safe?! Every state has a DVO type thing. WHY aren't they taken more into consideration thoughout the different courts!? WHY aren't the courts in sync!?
I suggest you put those questions to the Premiers.

Glorious said
Why has it been ordered that I take my son to see his abusive father in a situation that's not safe for him when there's a DVO with both out names on it! Why bother going through all the stress of it all. I may as well of just handed son over. I can see why so many people just give up.
Because what was put before the decision maker indicated that the son of the father and of yourself, was not going to be at harm.  Perhaps you should consider yourself lucky, because if the decisions maker saw this post it may very well have changed the decision.

Glorious said
By the time the next court date we'll have had the family report done and done parenting courses and everyone's going to say ex is fine, because he PRETENDS and does just enough to get him what he wants then after that he's a nightmare.


Tomorrow I have to hand son over to ex and ex's mum (a woman who refers to her grand-kids with foul nick names and is lying for her son to get my into trouble!) in a driveway of a contact centre, not actually at the contact centre because registration's not complete!. It may as well be in the middle of no where. I swear ex didn't register on purpose, his lawyer may have told him not to bother. While we're waiting for the next court date and ex is publicly behaving it's going to be reported that everything is fine and that your son is not in danger.

Why should I believe you rather than everyone else? Why should I not consider that you are driven to say what you say, that nobody else believes, and by what you say, the experts would believe, due to some difference that appears from your own words to put you at odds with everyone else? Perhaps it would be in the best interest of the son of the father and yourself, that you seek a qualified person to deal with the issue that you see everything else in a different light. I would like to make it absolutely clear that I do not know who you are, who the son's father is, who the son is, who the court, is where you are from, any of your friends, any of your colleagues, any people you associate with, any you see in the street or happen to meet. I would further say that I have not been influenced to say in any way by any person or persons or communicate to by any person or persons, I have not had aliens visit me and give me a message on behalf of any of the persons or via any actions from these person previously mentioned. I have not had any spiritual revelations, I do not read tea leaves, clouds, smoke signals …………………………….. (i.e. these are not them or him or anyone getting at you on behalf of the father).

Glorious said
and how is son going to feel being handed over by me to people he doesn't know and then having me walk away and leave him!??
As you currently have care then it is your responsibility to prepare your son for this, if you are the responsible parent you would be asking something along the lines of "How can I prepare my son for this, perhaps the responsible parent would think about this aspect before asking.

Glorious said
Why does a complete stranger get to decide what's best for son!? Talk about taking away parental responsibility!
Because as a parents, the son's father and yourself, you were not responsible enough to look to what is best for the child and that is to continue to act as a member of the child's family. You made decisions that allowed this complete stranger to make decisions on your behalf.

Glorious said
I feel sick to my stomach that I have to physically drive son and hand him to people he doesn't know and how do I know they'll treat him right, how do I know they won't defy the court orders and how do I know they'll even bring him back!
Then think of alternatives rather than whinge about what you have been party to happening. How does anybody know that you are treating the child right yourself? The evidence you've provided so far indicates that rather than consider what is best for your son you put yourself first.
Glorious said
What is the point of contact centres, courts, DVO'd, Magistrates if they're not all working together to keep people and kids safe!?????????????????????????!!!!!!!!
I notice the lack of yourself as the primary protector as first on the list. Oh sorry, you're not even on the list. Again it was your choice to not consider yourself as a protector.
I was told this was a safe place to come and have a vent. Thank you so much for making me feel like a bad parent.

Son comes first for me, I took him out of the violent, abusive situation after spending many months trying to fix things didn't work.

I've done everything I can think of to allow safe contact to happen since separation but ex has refused.

Son is very young and while I try to get him to understand what's going to happen when he sees his father, I don't think he does.
This seems to me to have been a nasty, unproductive and thoroughly unnecessary way to respond to a vent made by someone who seems to be struggling. I'm sure you are doing your best as a parent, hang in there!

The federal and state levels of our court system are not all in sync, something I have a problem with as well. In fact I recall having read something recently to the effect that in cases of domestic violence, this was going to be addressed.

Well done, attempting to arrange contacts for your son. He'll thank you for this one day, I'm sure. Just take care not to make any 'loaded' comment to him, e.g don't make any comment suggesting that the visit might not be pleasant. All the best.
ratboy said
This seems to me to have been a nasty, unproductive and thoroughly unnecessary way to respond to a vent…….
Vents work both ways, if you make one, you can probably expect one back.

This is not a site for bleeding hearts, its for people that want answers.

Here is my vent, why are you using a derogatory male term for your user name when you keep referring to 'my ex husband'?
Hi Conan

 Australians are fond of denigrating common kindness as 'bleeding hearts', no doubt that's where our bullying epidemics come from among other things.


The first poster seemed to ne wanting answers also, although her questions sounded more like howls of despair to me
As to your vent, you're welcome!  ratboy is the name of a character in a movie … a cult figure in fact (a while ago). I saw one of my brothers using it somewhere and find it amusing. Glad to clear that up. Where have I referred to my 'ex husband?" My first husband and I are good friends, and didn't need assistance from the family court when our marriage ended. My husband is the love of my life. Neither men would inspire me to being derogatory.
ratboy said
Hi Conan

Australians are fond of denigrating common kindness as 'bleeding hearts', no doubt that's where our bullying epidemics come from among other things.

You have been on site less than 24 hours, do you know what this site is actually for? You confuse bullying with straight forward responses.

ratboy said
Where have I referred to my 'ex husband?"

Here:
View topic: CSA calculations with Step Child - Family Law Web Guide

ratboy, I smell a rat. You and 'glorious' registered within minutes of each other, have the same ISP and live in the same suburb and are playing post tagging.

i joined this website today/yesterday. I've been reading it for months. I know what it's for.

There are 6 computers in my home, and I have been urging one of my children to visit this website for some time. I suspect she may have done so.  If it was she, I wish she had not.

I am not accusing you of bullying, my comment was general. Note I referred to Australians in general. As a population we like to think we are 'hard but fair'. My personal view is that we are simply hard.

all the best
Glorious said
I was told this was a safe place to come and have a vent.
How is what has been said unsafe? If may not fit what you wished to hear but that constitute unsafe. I believe that you need to elaborate on what is unsafe. If you feel the truth is unsafe then yet again you likely need to seek advice in regard to your place in society and how you as an individual interpret that place.

Glorious said
Thank you so much for making me feel like a bad parent.
From what you say you have not been the best of parents, few parents ever are the best of parents at all times, mistakes as parents are very easy to make. As parents to be good parents we must strive to learn and to also improve from our mistakes. I believe you are making yet another mistake, playing the victim, rather than trying to learn from the mistakes that have been pointed out. Alternately by entering into debate and pointing out mistakes about the mistakes pointed out.

Glorious said
Son comes first for me, I took him out of the violent, abusive situation after spending many months trying to fix things didn't work.
I don't believe that you have shown that your son does come first. I think you have shown that your son does not come first, rather that your singularly held belief that you put your son first, comes first and therefore that you come first.

Glorious said
I've done everything I can think of to allow safe contact to happen since separation but ex has refused.
How about considering what the rest of the world thinks? You, from what you have said, you consistently appear to lack the ability to consider that others, experts and those well versed in the matters included  could have valuable input. An analogy is that you'd be the bomb disposer, who just runs in and tried to be the hero, the dead hero, who tried to disarm the bomb with little knowledge. Is that attitude really thinking of all you can? What are those thoughts for example what alternatives in regard to facilitating contact in the best interest of the child  have you thought about? Would you, if it were required of you, a) go and try to disarm a bomb without knowing how or b) ensure that bomb was disarm by someone with the knowledge, having been told that the knowledge for the latter is available? What if a person were to take option a) and a) survived but others did not and or were injured. Should a) be the good, the hero or should a) be advised that they could have asked for the advice of others and that the result would likely have been no injuries or deaths?

You appear to be the sort that would chose a) for the first and b) for the second. Perhaps the safety issue is actually within yourself. Alternately if b) for the first, which negates the second question, then you'd be trying to look at what others say.

Questions were put to you, you have ignored them by not responding.
Why use a public forum exclusively for your own thoughts?
Why be selfish and not think or respect others, again what appears to be a common trait of yourself, from the information that you have posted, by not answering questions?

Are you aware of what happened to the content that no longer exists in your original post? Do you wish me to ascertain, from the site administrators, who deleted the content? If it was a Moderator then I believe they should have provided a reason and perhaps they need to consider that mistake.
Hey Glorious,

After seeing this thread I'd have to agree with the other posters here that you are either the daughter of ratboy and she is a concerned mother also posting on your behalf or that you and she are one in the same person.  In any instance that is neither here nor there to me at this time as I will instead respond to other things. 

 1.  You say "Why has it been ordered that I take my son to see his abusive father in a situation that's not safe for him when there's a DVO with both our names on it!"?

I think that this statement by ratboy "The order states that this handover is to take place in a contact centre" pretty much answers this question.  What I mean here is… 

Although you might not agree with the current Orders for your ex to have contact with his & your son and refer to the DVO which lists you both (actually on that…a post by ratboy leads me to believe that this is an interim DVO "The verbal abuse was reported to the local police, who advised (again) that we keep records of everything (we do) for the next DV hearing" which would also mean it might still be contested by the other party?) the fact that there are Orders for contact and that these Orders specify supervised contact (contact centre) then this actually does mean that the FM/Judge HAS taken into account the DVO and IS erring on the side of caution!!   To my knowledge there has not yet been any testing of the evidence from either side given that these Orders (at least according to ratboy) were made during a mention? 

On your concerns about the child's safety I'm just going to reiterate the advice you (well ratboy) received by LP in another forum "Any contact that takes place at a contact centre is well supervised so you can assure your daughter that there will be supervisors present who will make sure that the kid's best interests are maintained"


2.  You say "By the time the next court date we'll have had the family report done and done parenting courses and everyone's going to say ex is fine, because he PRETENDS and does just enough to get him what he wants then after that he's a nightmare."

This one makes me a little confused as you make an inference in another forum that you have not yet been to Court "I've been waiting for the chance to show some of my ex's lies, though haven't been in court to do so yet ".  Do you mean that you haven't had any evidence tested yet??   Just for your general info (in case you are getting confused) any Orders made by a  Judicial Officer whether at a mention or any other Court date have the same legal weight and ramifications as one another, so whatever is written into the current Orders you have, then this is what both you and your ex need to follow. 

In relation to your fears about your ex "pretending" and everyone saying your "ex is fine".  If this IS a genuine case of family violence (I'm in two minds currently on that one) then I would view this as a legitimate fear (it is not uncommon for abusers to masquerade and play the victim card) so I would suggest that you get in touch with some sort of support group, if you haven't done already, who can offer you some more specialised advice about what to expect, usual outcomes etc 


 3. You say here "Tomorrow I have to hand son over to ex and ex's mum (a woman who refers to her grand-kids with foul nick names and is lying for her son to get me into trouble!) in a driveway of a contact centre, not actually at the contact centre because registration's not complete!"

This is a statement that confuses me and makes me doubt your authenticity.  We've already established that you have a DVO against the ex.  Are you also saying that your "ex's" mother is violent?  Is she also listed on the DVO?  Are you trying to eliminate the whole paternal family from your son's life?  Sometimes when everything is changing and the feelings we have are still raw we can perceive the risks as greater than what they are (not always).  Again I refer to the Court Orders of supervised contact.  If the hand over above is not part of those Orders then you do not need to hand over the child anywhere other than where the Orders state…regardless of the advice you are receiving from both sides legal reps! 

Besides Judicial decision outweighs lawyer advice so even though you might be afraid not to follow your legal reps advice as ratboy indicates " My daughter is afraid to not take the advice of her lawyer in this contact matter."  please remember that although it is certainly a lawyer's job to advise and inform their clients as best they can, at the end of the day it is you who needs to make the decisions about that advice and to direct your rep about that decision.  If you are finding that you are feeling pressured by your rep into agreeing to things you don't agree to, providing you are not being unreasonable (by that I mean actively listening to their advice and being realistic) then you obviously have that option to say so or to change lawyers.  Lawyers are not infallible…they're human!! 

Let me put it this way.  I've had some excellent WONDERFUL legal reps who have taken the time to go through all of the options available to me and offered sound advice about those different options but ultimately they have always let me decide in the end.  On the other hand, I've had some legal reps who have not been so forthcoming with the right information (I found this out much later) and at the time given I did not know better and "trusted" my reps (why wouldn't I…they're the ones with the legal degree who should know the laws) this resulted in me making uninformed decisions (but that's been and gone and done with), but unfortunately this can happen and does.   There is currently no real avenue to hold a legal rep accountable for misinformation so even though you should be getting the right information, it is also up to you to make sure it is accurate and to choose wisely.  Easier said than done I know, especially if it's your first Court experience. 


4.  You say here " I feel sick to my stomach that I have to physically drive son and hand him to people he doesn't know and how do I know they'll treat him right, how do I know they won't defy the court orders and how do I know they'll even bring him back! "

I'm not sure what you mean by "people he doesn't know".  Are you saying the child has never met his father or his paternal grandmother before now? 

Also "How do you know they'll treat him right??" Well the simple answer here is…you don't!  Think about it this way, there will be many times in the child's life that he will be left in another's care. could be kinder, school maybe even a relative.  The point is though, that although constraints to ensure the safety of a child can be imposed, there will never be a 100% guarantee of safety regardless of those constraints.  What you have on your side though that should bring you some comfort (at least for now) are Court Orders which specify "at a contact centre".  So again I say…if you're not comfortable with anything else at this time…you are well within your rights to follow the Court Orders to the nth!! 


5.  You say here "Son comes first for me, I took him out of the violent, abusive situation after spending many months trying to fix things didn't work".

Like I said I'm in mixed minds but again if this IS a true instance of Family Violence then it is a good thing you have removed yourself from this relationship and tried to protect your son from further exposure.  There are many reasons a parent stays in an abusive relationship for longer than they should and none should ever be readily discounted.  The problem is that real cases of family violence are highly misunderstood and anyone who has never personally experienced it can only formulate views based on a limited understanding, hence the sometimes unfounded statements and negative stigma.  Yes in REAL cases of Family Violence there is a primary abuser and a victim and the misconception that the victim instigates the violent behaviours of the abuser or is as equally abusive, is positively ludicrous!   It's like saying that a person who kills another is not really guilty of murder because the victim bugged them that day! Placing blame for an abusers actions on a victim is taking away the abusers own accountability of responsible behaviour!

Also too in relation to children having previous exposure to Family Violence if this IS real (given also you have said your son is young…but any age really) I would suggest seeking some form of help for the child sooner than later, as most research tends to lean towards exposure (especially for children in their early developmental years ages 0-3 years) having possible long term consequences on their emotional wellbeing which can adversely affect them in later life.

This way whatever the final Court outcome is (your ex has already been granted contact, supervised for the time being, and in my understanding unless it is established that the danger to the child supersedes the child's rights to that relationship then this is unlikely to change) so at least you will be doing the right thing by your child in seeking help for them.  You should probably get some help too for yourslef otherwise you might do things or say things (because you are upset with your ex and confused) that you really shouldn't be doing or saying which can have further impacts on your son. 


Just generally…

The thing that you need to remember in all of this is that FM's/Judges (and even Magistrates…State Courts) are very highly learned people (takes a lot of ground work to get up there on the bench) and yes although like anyone an FM/Judge can make a mistake, their primary function as an adjudicator is to make decisions (BIG decisions…life affecting ones!!!) within the legislative framework for people who pretty much can't reach agreements about their children on their own.  Unfortunately these decisions can only be based on what is presented and whether any party to a proceeding agrees with the decision or not, the fact of the matter is that in all instances (in Family Law) FM's/Judges must always consider the best interests of the CHILD as being paramount.  It's not as simple as saying "I have a DVO that lists us both" therefore the child should never see the other parent.

I personally think this is where many people go wrong and why people end up feeling "jilted" in the end i.e. they possibly forget that the law is centralised around the children's rights and that in order to ensure these rights are being met FM's/Judges must also take into consideration many other factors (some of which obviously intertwine with the parents given these are the people who usually will be providing the care to the children) but that these additional considerations have nothing to do with parental rights as such.  In Family Law…parents have no rights!! 

Really at the end of the day, if this means that an FM/Judge determines that a child has the right to have a continuing relationship with both parents (even in view of a DVO) or alternately that a child should not have any physical contact with a parent, then rightly or wrongly, happy or devastated…that's just the way it is!

You can always file an appeal with the Appellate Courts if you don't agree with a decision, how successful you are would all really depend on the details of the case. 

Also, if you're not satisfied with just that and it's the Laws themselves you have a problem with…don't just complain to anyone who will listen, that'll get you nowhere, people eventually switch off to serial complainers…be proactive!!  Take your complaints it to the "Law makers" (Parliament) and campaign to have the laws changed!


Like I said, if what you say IS true then you will be experiencing many emotions at the moment and your fears are completely understandable.  As such it is a good thing you have the support of your parents (ratboy and father) and don't be afraid to reach out further for help…for you or your son!!  

 
Good Luck!

"Never, "for the sake of peace and quiet," deny your own experience or convictions". Dag Hammarskjold
I needed help with my case and couldn't afford a lawyer and found these guys invaluable  srl-resources.org
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