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The Children Suffer

One of Australia's "finest" deals a harsh and low blow to a small child.

My ex has a new cop partner. Today my ex gave the phone to my child, with her cop partner on the other end, and the phone on loud speaker, the cop said, "If your Dad makes trouble for your Mum I will put him in jail." My child, only 7-years-old, burst into tears and replied if you put my dad in jail you can put me in jail too!

What do you call that?! I call that abuse; the worst kind!

How do you / can you prove it if your child cannot express or testify as a witness? Otherwise they get away with it. IT MAKES ME ANGRY!

Monaro I get a little confused as people are finding out.

Was your child with his mother at the time?

Do you have a recording device?

Although cops are human too you would not expect that I hope he feels ashamed of his comment but that would depend on what spiel you x fed him.

Try and get your evidence the department will not be impressed with that sort of behaviour.

On the same hand it may not be the hassle of chasing up only you can tell that.
I will try to explain this better after calming down from an anxiety attack!

I was talking to my daughter on the phone, she sounded frightened, when she told me that her mother earlier today was talking to her cop partner on the phone.

My ex called my daughter in, put the phone on loud speaker and had a three way conversation. That's when the cop made his threat to her.


Mate how can you do anything about that.

How often do you see your 7 year old ??

Every second weekend and half school holidays. I have phone contact though my ex is constantly finding ways to circumvent it over the past two years.

I have logged - as jadzia mentioned - a chronology of phone contact and have even recorded my daughter in tears many times (after advice knowing I cannot use the recordings for reasons I may go into later).

I have also asked previously, but to no avail, how can I find my ex's email address. It is critical to my prep in court.

I remember you asking about the e-mail address and did a few searches but came up with nothing useful.

It's a hard one because what ever you do to combat the situation may cause more problems for your daughter.

My daughter coped a bit for a while there with one thing or another and she was coming home quite upset, it took a few weeks for her to talk as she was scared it was going to hurt me, then after it came out it took a little while to find a way of dealing.

What I did was sit her down and had a talk about how people were different and how some people may not like the people you like and some will, when someone doesn't like one of your friends but they are a good friend to you what do you do. She gave me a reasonable answer so I carried on. Well your ( siblings ) don't like your dad and they may say things that you may not like but do you know what " what " I forgive them and you know your daddy best.

It might not work but it will help them handle what they have to secure that if dad doesn't care why should I, I forgive them too. It may well take away one trigger from both of you.

As far as interpreting laws on recorded conversations I have my opinion on this and have stuck to it for 4 years, personally if there was a need I would not hesitate and I do not if the safety or security of my daughter is at risk. In my opinion.
I have a recording of my son running away from his mother and younger sister, who was told to contravene Phone Orders, took the phone off my son mid conversation.

Friends say I should play it in court, because my then 10 yr old son gave permission to record what was happening to him. What I mean is don't seek to play any recording of a child, even if they are seeking your protection. Judges will persecute you for attempting to protect your child.

With what has happened to my children and I, due to the Judges KNOWING the criminal behaviour of my Ex, I have not seen my children for 4.5+ years and been ridiculed for seeking  that Mushin get his just deserts by pursuing the LAW.

Those that know my Ex know she needs HELP … and so do our Children, from her abuse.

Thanks Mushin for your misguided belief in what is in the best interest of children. He claims a recording of evidence his not proper evidence, so it is inadmissible.
Even though you might have a clear picture of what has happened to you and your children - you might find it difficult to get that story across. It might lose some clarity because of the intense emotions connected with it.

You need yo be clear about what message you want to convey - if its fear for your children's well being while with their mother - then raise all the points associated with that - make the statement and claims and offer to supply further evidence of required.

Judges , however, are less likely to believe males who assert things but are MORE LIKELY to address a female's fears and assertions. The better judges will ignore assertions made from both people and concentrate on the issue.

If your story is that the ex is an unsuitable parent - then thats a big call. If its that she is causing damage to the children - well that almost goes without saying - divorce is a big thing - children do get damaged - BUT THEY RECOVER.

As far as the police go - women use police. its happens all the time and there are always enough big, idiot, hero police to come along to "protect" everybody (but you that is). Some poice are almost bright enough to recognise whats going on but there are always a few throwbacks.

My ex threatened police all the time - even tried to take my children away from my mother when they were visiting her (with threats of police). The children remember this and it tells them a lot about the character of their mother and gives them some ideas about right and wrong - which I still try to keep instilling.

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
No-Justice said
I have a recording of my son running away from his mother and younger sister, who was told to contravene Phone Orders, took the phone off my son mid conversation.

Friends say I should play it in court, because my then 10 yr old son gave permission to record what was happening to him. What I mean is don't seek to play any recording of a child, even if they are seeking your protection. Judges will persecute you for attempting to protect your child.

Thanks Mushin for your misguided belief in what is in the best interest of children. He claims a recording of evidence his not proper evidence, so it is inadmissible.
Did you object to Mushin's decision?

Or argue your recordings were saved by s5(3) of the listening devices act, being a recording which was reasonably necessary for the protection of your lawful interests?

This topic seems to be paralleling another topic, perhaps it would be better to " Recording Phone Conversations ".

This way the benefits of the discussion will be in one place.

Tonight i am to call my daughter for contact,
When i call, my ex answers the phone stalls with it around 5-10 minutes while i am hearinng in the background my daughter "mom is that dad  -why arn't you giving me the phone?" eventually when she is in tears the phone is given to her..
What do i say to my daughter……shurley the courts dont expect me to praise her mother!!  

No there is no need to praise her and the system is aware that there are different types of mother father relationships. I started out wanting the type of situation where my daughter could go from one house to the next same rules, same bed times, same co-operation. I banged my head for a year or so, saw school counselors for help in trying to get her mother to comply and did parenting course to make sure I was on track. It never happened.

It has turned into an uneasy truce where her mother and myself do not communicate except about our daughter. My daughter has two separate lives one at dads and one at mums.

What she is doing is not fair and she's yanking your chain to cause conflict, no doubt she is searching for a reaction and use it fully against you, I know this is heart breaking and I know you want the best but the longer she has power over you and cause the reaction the more she will do it.

Unfortunately many who do this type of behaviour are nothing more than bullies.

I can't say anything to make it better but I can listen.
monaro said
My ex has a new cop partner. Today my ex gave the phone to my child, with her cop partner on the other end, and the phone on loud speaker, the cop said, "If your Dad makes trouble for your Mum I will put him in jail." My child, only 7-years-old, burst into tears and replied if you put my dad in jail you can put me in jail too!

What do you call that?! I call that abuse; the worst kind!
The best way to deal with this is to write a well crafted letter to the Commissioner of Police and the Police Complaints authorty and the Regional Commander for the area this scum bag works out of. Perhaps the station Commander as well…I would suggest to you that a number of his peers would be somewhat dissapointed in the behaviours of one of Australia's "Finest". I have many collegues in the force and some are on the site from time to time with  their own parenting and separation issues.

I would be suprised if the officer was not counselled and a notation on his file that he will not be expecting. Might dampen his fervour.. If it doesn't then he can kiss his thoughts of a promotion away.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
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Just back from DiDs, as i predicted the ex again  sabotaged my phone contact.
She wants me to retaliate so she can enforce her avo, guess what - I AINT PLAYING!

Well done monaro keep it cool and play by your rules and give her nothing to work with.

Many of us have been through this some worse than others, we feel for ya and it's frustrating but you can do this.

Good on ya  
monaro.

Can you have a witness or 2 in the room when you next make a call to your daughter, then get them to provide affidavits of what they heard.

It sounds like a Contempt of Court Orders and the only way to deal with abusive controlling people is send them to Court for their abusive behaviour.

Make sure you make NO comment to your daughter about how long it took Mummy to hand over the phone, that is as bad as the INTERFERENCE with Court Ordered Phone interaction. Although you would not be contravening Orders your daughter will remember how you were nasty about her mummy.
Good idea No-Justice perhaps the witnesses could be in another room that a speaker phone is on in.

Does anyone know if this would attract objection ??

This way both sides of the conversation could be heard.
D4E, got your message and thanks for the help and advice in my hour of need.

No-justice, funny you should say this in the DiDs  meeting the other day I made my contact call to my daughter the irony is that the court ordered contact falls at the same time the DiDs meeting and P.S. witnessed my waiting to talk to my daughter.

Later that evening we debated the pros and cons for a supporting witness, personally I think it is a good idea.

I also wonder D4E if this would attract objection in the court?

Question ;what would you say to your child when your conversation starts in tears and your child saying "mum just would not give me the phone" ? should i make excuses for the parents behaviour, "don't worry luv it's OK".

My daughter cries out "ITS NOT OK!", while saying that she is in tears. IT IS HEART BREAKING! For almost 3 years her constant sabotage and abuse to my daughter has goaded me beyond endurance.

I go through similar stuff on a weekly basis well every second week anyway. Don't get me wrong it is different when they are with you because you can talk and support them better.

We gear ourselves up to make excuses for wrongs that the kids know are wrong, they even get taught it's wrong at school, and yes when she hears from you that it's OK to treat her this way she lets you know.

Unfortunately they do become accustom to the negatives of each environment but this does not mean they have to like it and teasing a child in the manner you suggest is sending a very strong message to the child.

Now here's the thing.

You don't want to dismiss your child but you don't want them to reject their other environment but you want her to know you agree because it is wrong.

This is what I did. I'll take it as conversation to cover calls and talks.

Situation arises drama at mums, daughter expresses that she does not like the way her siblings tease her about me, "they call you bad names dad and tease me when I'm on the phone", talking calmly "Oh that's not very nice is it does it upset you ?", "it does sometimes dad cause they tell me that when I get older their going to tell me a thing or two about you".

Two different subjects encroach need to deal separate or cause confusion.

"Well are you sure they not just teasing you for fun," "it's not very funny dad," "no I can see that but just remember one thing they don't get to see their dad as much as you and they may be a little jealous" jealous not the best word but it making her think about why it happens, it makes her happy to see her dad as much as what she does but sympathetic to her siblings."

And you know what sweetie it's OK for them to say those things because I forgive them "If you forgive you give permission for them to forgive, it takes away a trigger and can you imagine their faces when she turns around and says "my dad forgives you and so do I" might not happen but kids are funny that way.
"And you know that other thing about when you get older," "yes dad," "well you know your daddy better than anyone so what could they say that was bad?" little laugh

It can't help but break your heart to hear what they go through but it's important that they don't have to hold a grudge.

This may well be employed by the other home as a means of control and a way of manipulation to the point where the kids just can't help but give in so why not give them your blessing to give in, all your saying is that it's OK that people are different and feel differently and think different things, you might not agree but you need to respect their rights.

But if your going to do this do the prep work when she's with you and introduce it slowly you will have a lot of work because they hold a lot inside for little children.

Hope this makes some sense just turn it around for your situation and best of luck.

And if anyone else has things that work pass them on  :thumbs:
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