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Liability of the CSA

Call for a class action

No doubt alot of us have been emotionally effected and stressed by the biased methods which the CSA does business.  So at what point does the CSA admit liability for increasing stress, creating health problems and causing emotional problems between parents by use of their biased, confronting approaches?  Numerous occasions I have been ordered to pay, re-pay or similar additional CS based on a phone call from ex, then after numerous letters and demonstrations of proof do I have these orders over-turned.  If I had simply been asked to confirm various matters then I would not have been placed under this pressure.  Surely there are many others out there in similar circumstances, surely there are enough of us who could clearly demonstrate that deterioration of health, increases in stress etc can directly be attributable to the methods of the CSA - if so a class action and then sue the bast#$ds.!
Welcome to the club…. there are thousands of us who scream the same thing - affecting mens health.

But even when there is direct evidence of CSA intervention and badgering having impacted on the death of a father, they get away scott-free.

Canberra Times Wednesday 15/11/00

RODERICK CAMPBELL

It was "a tragic indictment of the system" that a Canberra man had committed suicide holding a letter of demand from the Child Support Agency, the ACT Coroners Court was told yesterday.

Barrister Richard Thomas said the receipt of the letter two days before Warren Gilbert's death in August had "tipped him over the edge".

He said Mr Gilbert, 28, had died from carbon monoxide poisoning in a friend's car after being ''hounded" by the CSA.

The CSA had been taking 47 per cent of his gross salary in tax and another 30 per cent for child support.

With a massive 80 per cent of his wages gone, Mr Gilbert had $150 a week to live on.

Mr Gilbert's body was found on August 20 in a car parked at the Namadgi National Park visitor's centre.

Constable Clorinda Iannucci said Mr Gilbert's former partner had told her that Mr Gilbert hated having to pay so much child support for his three children because they could never go anywhere or do anything.

"He couldn't get anywhere in life because they [the CSA] kept taking all his money," she had said.

Constable Iannucci said she had contacted the CSA, but it had refused to provide any information.

And so on … and so on….
An unfortunate story, however not quite sure how the CSA collects tax, and if it was 47% then the individual must have been earning a high salary??

Does the CSA get away with it, or is it a case that no-one has challenged them.  People power always works!
Oh they were challenged… but washed their hands of it - they have been called to task from my understanding on many occassion… and I assume the article was referring to the tax office (47%) then CSA (30%).
I think you will find that $150 is after rent is taken out. If my back figuring is close enough he was on about $675/wk, paid about $203 C$A and about $142 Tax.
foxhound31 said
No doubt alot of us have been emotionally effected and stressed by the biased methods which the CSA does business.  So at what point does the CSA admit liability for increasing stress, creating health problems and causing emotional problems between parents by use of their biased, confronting approaches?  Numerous occasions I have been ordered to pay, re-pay or similar additional CS based on a phone call from ex, then after numerous letters and demonstrations of proof do I have these orders over-turned.  If I had simply been asked to confirm various matters then I would not have been placed under this pressure.  Surely there are many others out there in similar circumstances, surely there are enough of us who could clearly demonstrate that deterioration of health, increases in stress etc can directly be attributable to the methods of the CSA - if so a class action and then sue the bast#$ds.!
 

I was once told by a CSA Officer that if I ignored their errors and complied, I wouldn't get so stressed. That at the end of the day it was all about the children, so a few extra dollars their way wasn't important. The Officer couldn't comprehend those 'few extra dollars' was the difference between decent accomodation at the time or a caravan, that my child had to live in 30% of the year.

Another occassion I was severely chided for not paying overdue monies in person by a CSA officer. When her ranting stopped, I explained I was the one owed the overdue CS. She stopped in her tracks, apologised, stated that my being a male she assumed I must of been the payer, that she also assumed the child was in the mothers full-time care. When we got back to my reason being at the CSA , the same Officer rattled of a list of reasons why the mother maybe was in arrears and said I should be more understanding, patient and possibly let the overdue monies slide.

"at what point does the CSA admit liability for increasing stress" never!

" Perspective depends on which side of the barbed wire fence you sit, or indeed if you are sitting on it! "
well said zoehasrights.

CSA are simply the worst organisation ever invented, the people in it are like you said but there are people like that in ALL government departments. Somehow the government thinks that by inventing these VERY POWERFUL organisations - but providing 'checks and balances' somehow peoples rights are protected. This simply is not the case.

Most government orgs will spend more time and energy defending themselves or at best 'trying to better next time' as if that means the problem is being effectively dealt with. NOR IS ANY COMPENSATION OR JUSTICE POSSIBLE.

Its wrong.
CSA is too powerful invasive, unaccountable, protected, life damaging, etc

What gets me is that NO-ONE in government thinks that giving these agencies'  (and SSAT and, relationship counsellors and magistrates,etc) HUGE POWERS to JUDGE PEOPLE, REMOVE CHILDREN, REMOVE MONEY ARBITRARILY is a problem.

Its a very sick society when the number of dead people, financially ruined,sick and traumatised people MEAN NOTHING to governments EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE THE ONES THAT CAUSED THE PROBLEM.

You would think that the declining marriage, increased divorce,problems with children, drop in birth rates and dead and homeless men might MEAN SOMETHING to government. But instead they rush to somehow consider GAY MARRIAGES as an important issue (hmmm maybe that will boost the numbers - make more complex CSA , family law cases etc.)

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
THis does have a god point as in unlike say hospitals or fire service if they dont deliver and they seriously work so poorly or unfairly that it damages people lifes in that they are suffering extreme porverty csa dont get royal commissions and impliment change because of it.

Courts dont get extra funding  for the rush of cases that new legislation has brought in, the courts are extremely strained and this has been causing incredable strain on families who are waiting it out.

Rarghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Han Solo routine "We're all fine here, thanks. How are you?" *weapons fire* "It was a boring conversation anyway!"
JP said
CSA are simply the worst organisation ever invented
Come on Jon. However if you really believe this then please explain why you would prefer to see the Ku Klux Klan, or the Nazi's, just to name a few organisations that I think most would agree were worse, far worse.
good point Mike - I must admit I have not studied all the agencies in history and there must be some that would be worse than CSA - I agree those ones above seem far worse. There may even be a few others.

I Humbly apologize .

CSA is just one of the many atrocious organisations in history

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
Well JP does make a good point though…. The only difference I see (in some cases) is that CSA sugar coat some lements in order to get you to see it their way, and act their way…. the Nazi and KKK got sick of thrying to sugar coat things and just became enforcers……

So with these new power will we see the sugar coating disappear? Are we starting to see it disappear already (aka.. covert surveillance, act first ask questions later, SSAT 50% overruled decisions)?

WTF - Zimbabwe and Uganda

I suppose some of the things which worry me about the csa are
  1. extreme powers
  2. unbalanced gender representation of employees and clients
  3. mottos and jingle type drivers 'its all about the children'
  4. Denial of rights
  5. overly interventionist
  6. costly, difficult and takes a long time to dispute
  7. bad computer systems and business process
  8. expensive to operate and run
  9. No compensatsion, recovery of back monies for some but for others
  10. Lack of comprenesion of 'bigger picture'

But unlike the nazis or others of that ilk - pretends its something its not - sells the idea of 'good intentions' but is set up to act with more power and control than many orgs - devolved to CSA staff and contractors.

The government and the ones who get the money love CSA.

Inflammatory opinion edited

Last edit: by Artemis


 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
Jon Pearson said
CSA will never be liable, nor the staff in it. Everyone is very well protected. Just look at countries like zimbabwe , uganda (historically) and others - those people learned how to use government to shift power and money around by observing how countries like UK, Australia, USA etc had developed 'systems' like CSA, Family court etc.


So the oppressive regime in Zimbabwe is a result of their studying how the CSA and Family Court work in some countries?

Give us a break, your logic is one and one equals fifty.

In another post you said "Given that the rates of mental illnesses are quite high in the population". I need to write no more, you have said it for me.
The problem that I have, as I have stated before… is the CSA basis for requesting new powers which is to obtain justification for  greater action under "see how well it worked with these liitle cases".

I would be interested to know if any "surveillance" was carried out on people prior to them getting the new legislative powers…. and how much was carried out in order for them to base their justification to make it a formal part of the CSA arsenal.

I get sick of CSA blabbing out "standard rhetoric" then doing whatever they like in things such as conversations and COA interviews… they either do everything as "standard" or everything as "way out there".  This is what I think JP may be getting at… the "public face" of CSA and the "not so public face" and the GREAT DIVISION between the 2.


As I have quoted on in other posts, a government or section of government that persecutes a section of society, not on the basis of their all member of that society being guilty - but only on the basis of their being associated with people who have committed an offence then this forms the basis for totalatarianism - and when government identifies that that form of "control" works in its favour then the next step is communism/dictatorship.

I think it can be safely said that CSA does "hunt" (for lack of a better word) those of us who do not fit the perfect CSA mould…. and at present (as I am finding) they want you to conform or face further "investigation" (again for lack of a better word). The scale may be different, the overall outcome may be different but looking at it interms of the plight of the Russian and Siberian peasants in 1910 -1930's Russia - or infact the Jewish community during the war .. i see some similarities..

Remember the Nazi party did not start as the power in Germany it started as a Socialist reform society acting out covert operations (then denying them), telling the government of the day "look at what these people are doing", then telling the average German "look at what these people are doing" - gaining support and public opinion about a section of society until they gain total power through "democratic/legal" elections. Once power was gained - the tables turned and democracy turned to fear for those who did not fit the mould, regardless of whether they committed and offence of not and regardless of their contribution to society…..

Last edit: by nxus

nxus said
As I have quoted on in other posts, a government or section of government that persecutes a section of society, not on the basis of their all member of that society being guilty - but only on the basis of their being associated with people who have committed an offence then this forms the basis for totalatarianism - and when government identifies that that form of "control" works in its favour then the next step is communism/dictatorship.

I think it can be safely said that CSA does "hunt" (for lack of a better word) those of us who do not fit the perfect CSA mould…. and at present (as I am finding) they want you to conform or face further "investigation" (again for lack of a better word). The scale may be different, the overall outcome may be different but looking at it interms of the plight of the Russian and Siberian peasants in 1910 -1930's Russia - or infact the Jewish community during the war .. i see some similarities..


 

I was reading in another thread about "gobbeldy gook". Then I read the above post from NXUS and realised that with this passage he has just raised the Gobbeldy gook bar to gold medal heights.
Testing-one-two said
nxus said
As I have quoted on in other posts, a government or section of government that persecutes a section of society, not on the basis of their all member of that society being guilty - but only on the basis of their being associated with people who have committed an offence then this forms the basis for totalatarianism - and when government identifies that that form of "control" works in its favour then the next step is communism/dictatorship.

I think it can be safely said that CSA does "hunt" (for lack of a better word) those of us who do not fit the perfect CSA mould…. and at present (as I am finding) they want you to conform or face further "investigation" (again for lack of a better word). The scale may be different, the overall outcome may be different but looking at it interms of the plight of the Russian and Siberian peasants in 1910 -1930's Russia - or infact the Jewish community during the war .. i see some similarities..


 
I was reading in another thread about "gobbeldy gook". Then I read the above post from NXUS and realised that with this passage he has just raised the Gobbeldy gook bar to gold medal heights.
 
Ha ha - I think nxus has confused 'Arbeit macht frei' with 'Mein kopf ist frei'! (leer)

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas. 
Testing-one-two said
nxus said
As I have quoted on in other posts, a government or section of government that persecutes a section of society, noton the basis of theirall memberof that societybeingguilty - but only on the basis of their being associated with people who have committed an offence then this formsthe basis fortotalatarianism - and when government identifies that that form of "control" works in its favour then the next step is communism/dictatorship.

I think it can be safely said that CSA does "hunt" (for lack of a better word) those of us who do not fit the perfect CSA mould…. and at present (as I am finding) they want you to conform or face further "investigation" (again for lack of a better word). The scale may be different, the overall outcome may be different but looking at it interms of the plight of the Russian and Siberian peasants in 1910 -1930's Russia - or infact the Jewish community during the war .. i see some similarities..


 
I was reading inanother thread about "gobbeldy gook". Then I read the above post from NXUS and realised that with this passagehe has just raised theGobbeldy gook bar to gold medal heights.

Well as I understand it - every village has 'one'. I guess nxus wants to be our official one.

Nazi or KGB

Any one that compares the CSA to the Nazis or the  Stalinist Soviet regime has no knowledge of history, no experience of such nefarious regimes, and certainly lives in a world that  they can call their own.



Further more there are at least two members of this site, who had family members in prisoned and killed by these regimes; they find your comments, about about comparing  the CSA to these regimes as repugnant.

Your post have done nothing but lower the tone of the site.



Monti:|

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on the site (Look for the Avatars).   Be mindful what you post in the public areas. 
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