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July 2009 Holidays

The agreement my ex and I had re child visitation is falling apart!

We take it in turns to have the kids for holidays, he has one living with him now and I have two with me. So next holidays it is daughter no2's (lives with dad) turn to come to me and all three stay here. We do it this way rather than straight swaps each holidays so the kids can spend time together.

For the past 4 years he has always tried to change the kids minds on what happens, usually by blackmail (come to me this holidays (when its my turn) and we will go to seaworld, bribie island etc etc). When it's his turn to have them all he tries to persuade daughter no2 to come to me for one on one time. The girls with me then get upset cos they want to spend time with their sister and then decide not to go so I say no, thats not fair on their dad and enforce them going there and so daughter no2 doesn't come down. The last time this happened I was working and had plans for the holidays and said no, now daugher no2 says I don't love her or want her here.

4 years ago my ex moved with 2 of the kids, without informing me, to Qld. I could have made an issue of this but the kids wanted to go so I didn't. I wish I had now as I am so OVER driving 5 hours & back to M every holidays for change over. I'm not a good driver and fall asleep driving so always have to put my friends out to bring someone with me. Last holidays daughter no3 went on her own and I pulled out of meeting her half way, putting her on a bus. Ex agreed to pay half, I never saw the money.

Anyway to the bit that is browning me off, I asked daughter no2 to come here on a bus and think the ex should pay the ticket to make us even with the cost. Ex refused saying I HAVE to meet in M. Ex then told daughter no2 he will take her shooting these holidays so she doesn't want to come down. Daughter no1 who is 16 has decided this is all unfair as I haven't seen daughter no2 since Xmas as all communication has gone between her and daughter no2 (ex won't talk to me about it and always goes thru the kids). D3 has spoken to her Dad and told him she thinks he should send d2 down. His response was "why, your mother doesn't want her anyway".

I am so damn OVER this whole thing, no matter what I do I can't beat his stupid games. I have now told d2 that I will pay the entire bus fair for her to come down for the holidays. I have every intention of then refusing to meet him to drop her off and if he wants her back he can pay the bus fair. That will probably only work once. She is going to think about it but didn't give me any sign she will come down.

I really really want to not drive to M ever again. Last time I went alone cos I had no one to help me drive I fell asleep and one of the girls grabbed the steering wheel and got us back on the road screaming at me. We had only just had a stop 45 minutes before, I had plenty of sleep the night before and done all the right things to avoid driver fatigue.

Anyway thanks for listening to me rant!!!!

Last edit: by Artemis


When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
Oh, sorry, I thought D2 was 18. Mmm, sounds like she has become aligned to Dad. This is the one he was letting do all the belly peircing etc? I remember now.

Geez, so hard to know what to do.

I think he's just trying to up the emotional pressure cooker so that you will cave on property.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Perhaps you need to look at this through fresh eyes Jadzia.

I would suggest you consider the following.

Go to your doctor express what is happening with regards to long distance driving and your fatigue, ask for medical letter that reflects that long drives are not a safe physical option for you.

Enquire as to what age would be considered appropriate for a child to be alone on transportation unaccompanied.

Put forward in a letter that the required distance that is being requested is not a viable and safe solution and request that an alternative be looked at.

Wait a short period of time to apply for mediation of the situation, again reflect the main points of the argument with the acceptance that there is no need for either parent to physically drive the distance because of the childs age.

If mediation is not successful and you do go to court for a ruling you should be able to introduce the evidence of alignment and fingers crossed it will be resolved for some time.

I know you've probably already thought of much of this and you are already working towards resolution of the problem and may even simply wanted a rant but a discussion on the matter will help other who are in similar situations to yourself.

Once it's in an order a breach can be raised. The unfortunate thing is it takes time and sacrifice to progress through the system only to start back at square one on another issue.

It shows just how destructive alienation is.

All best D4E     
Age 12 is the legal age a child can be to go on a bus alone, and has been used many a time before. The ex is happy to put her on a bus as long as he doesn't have to pay, prior to this he has been happy to pay. The trouble is the cost, if I insist on bus for all trips it is going to cost $135 one way for one child, and when it is time for both then naturally that becomes $270.

I actually have a certificate to go to court as he failed to respond to previous attempts for mediation, and then went back into the agreement. I'm not sure if that certificate is still current (do they expire?).

The main problem is not him breaking the agreement himself but by way of offering the girls alternatives which at age 12, 15 and 16 allows them choices, which invariably end up with me not seeing the child who lives with him (aged 15) as I tend to try and stick to the agreement of alternative holidays.

I have already had D2 tell me I should pay for all the trips as I am the one who ended the marriage despite her Dad being the one who moved 10 hours away and when I try to stick to my guns throws all his insults at me accusing me of sleeping around etc etc.

I honestly think that going to court isn't the answer as they can't stop his manipulative behaviour even if they do enforce proper visitation. Ultimatly at her age if she doesn't want to come it can't be forced. If it goes to court it is only going to keep going back over and over everytime there is a breach.

When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
As in the case of many manipulators they draw the child into the role of being a protective parent, basically they become the conduit for the continued war.

War can be one sided so involving the child by manipulation means a doubling effect of the pain he puts you through by firstly alienating you and encouraging the child to stand up to you. There is no doubt it's abuse and the child has been confused into thinking their father is the victim but as you say there is little that can be done if the child refuses to be objective.

I do agree that there is little you can do but keep to what you feel is the right thing. The courts can't do anything and if he insists on breaching the child will simply grow older as your in and out of court.

I am use to hearing similar things on the DID's forum with regards to fathers being alienating and the advice is pretty much constant. Be the best parent you can be, stick to what you feel is acceptable and wait, with a bit of luck your kids will come looking for you. This of course is age relevant to children whom the courts will listen to what the child wants and in situations of extensive alienation. I don't think the advice differs from mums to dads, alienation knows no barriers and always sees the child develop a need to protect the manipulator.

Choices become limited and no matter what you do it will not be comfortable or what you feel is best for your children but more to the point your only viable alternative. This is heart breaking when you consider he has used the ace card of " See I told you your mum doesn't want you " and by the sound he's worked hard to establish this.

Your only fall back is to recite to your daughter that this is not a discussion that involves her but rather between both her parents and refuse to discuss it with her but let her know you are willing to keep to the agreement of paying half costs.

She won't like it because her father has made her an equal meaning basically an adult and she expects that privilege now but if you continue to discuss this as if she was a decision maker regarding this topic she continue to treat you as an inferior as he father has taught her to do.

It is really difficult for a parent to stick to their guns and morals when situations like this arise and there is no doubt that compromises must be met but there also becomes times when hard choices are made and they hurt you down to your soul.

One thing it does show is that the effects of alienation are the same whether it be mum or dad that initiates the alienation.

Best of luck
Thanks D4E. She has decided to go shooting with her Dad so I will just have to suck it up and do the best I can.

When you are swimming down a creek and an eel bites your cheek, that's a Moray.
It really bites Jadzia and I always wish there was a better solution available for those going through alienation with regards to older children, you just have to hold on and do the best you can and hope they come home one day.

It is however a situation that may be in many of our futures.

All best d4E  
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