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Future for Our Kids

Where are we now and what does the future hold?

Apart from the 'Fat, Dumb and Lazy' issues are - How did we get here? What can we do about it?

  1. Elitism
  2. Individualism
  3. Ignorance

Australia has cultivated elitism since the 'White Australia Policy' through to 2020. The elite are:
  1. Celebrities (well duh)
  2. The wealthy (bill gates got an audience with cabinet when he came to Australia, Packer,etc)
  3. Women (Rudd endorsed them as 'the best and brightest' - but not men, workers, migrants, disabled, etc)
  4. Intellectuals and University educated (the 'experts and white coats' - they who must be obeyed)

Individualism came from consumerism and consumption (and economics discussion) about 'what should be counted in an economy'?
Does the amount of coffee consumed by people sitting around in cafes reflect a valid contribution to society? How should me measure the economy? We have so many people consuming daily that we can't stop it without the economy collapsing (apparently according to white coats) - hence consumerism is supported and subsidized by governments.

Individualism was also developed from the victim mentality (discrimination ACT - or 'how to discriminate against others model', me tooism (I simply must have that plasma, new mobile phone and a more impressive car - Ok just make me American). So of this Individualism also came from the 'Cultural Cringe' mentality and the inability to see oneself as 'Australian' and 'Important' - that sense of import had to come from somewhere else - using other people's values.

Ignorance eveloved from the politically correct movement - which came from the victim movement.
Hence no discussion is to be entered into and all those who fail to repeat the mantras shall be severely 'AUSTricized'
Ignorance also came from the removal of resources from TAFES, colleges and Universities to turn them into 'businesses'.
TV (and the rubbish it shows - Yoyeristic, Celebrity, Lack of News, etc) has generally not helped.

So with this its no wonder:
  1. People sit around expecting to be supported by others (victims and the elite - Pru Goward - lets pay women just to be women)
  2. No-one prepared to do 'menial' jobs (457 visas, lack of trades people , excess of people with degrees in 'gender studies' (now there's a god qualification)
  3. Destruction of families and communities (rampant individualism, consumersim, fear (from the victm models) and repression from the eleitist groups (via government legislation and policy), Family law and CSA (Repressive - Politically correct and victim), Valuing Males (Fathers, rights, money, worth , health, opinions etc)

What hope for our Children?

A) All jobs are important - even so called 'menial' ones. Rudd could have shown this by inviting trades people to a best and brightest conference. He could have been more inclusive - instead all he did was show his prejedices - lets all sit next to a 'celebrity'

B) Remove the victim models and seek to value all Australians equally and fairly in all roles.

C) require people to work - dont blame the 'Age Bubble' for lack of workers - old people are probably far more prepared to be productive than those who were raised in the me too and consumer, consumption model. We need to develop a 'production and support' model. (NOT PAY PEOPLE TO HAVE MORE BABIES)

D) Develop sense of community and relationshisp by removing regressive laws, education campaigns and victim models. Level the playing field.

The path we are on is wrong and getting worse. SIGNIFICANT CHANGE is required. Not the eletist pandering and prolitically correct ignornace that is currently entrenched.

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
You know this is like a different form of racism, you dont think that everyone is stupid fat and lazy based on race, its our whole country. Sorry jon I dont see how this rant should be in this thread unless you are saying we should all move to utopia for our kids, where ever that is so they dont develop aussie pitfalls.


Han Solo routine "We're all fine here, thanks. How are you?" *weapons fire* "It was a boring conversation anyway!"
Its a health discussion and sometimes it makes sense to see what we are and where we are in the world.
Obesity is a major problem, education and skills is a major problem (and open discussion), and underemployment is a problem.

This is our country our lifestyle - how this country is moving. We lead the world as polluters, consumers and all sorts of measures - now obesity.
Its not racist to discuss measures or do international comparisons. the questions are - do they mean anything and what do we thinks is important.

The question is - and its for governments and the people in this country - what sort of country do we want.

Form my point of view the dumbing down , de-skilling, destruction of community and families, lack of respect for all, rise and rise of the elitist class and the unethical or mindless pursuit of money are all negatives. But that's just me expressing my view about 'health' and 'future' and where my children are going to fit.

Certainly some of my values will rub off but hopefully I will help them get some skills in looking at themselves in honest, constructive and principle based way to take on board what they think is important and reject the bad stuff.

I don't believe the direction of australian society is particularly 'healthy' - I think its quite sick. The repression, the laws, the values, the hubris, shallowness, lack of care for others, the fear, and I could go on.

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
Hey Jon I do respect your values btw, Its important that people take ownership of their actions, which I guess is why you put your thoughts into the thread. Sorry jon I was just having a cranky day!

As far as doing something about it I guess you could raise your children without a sense of entitlement about everything from food, belongings, career and freindships. Can anyone one think of the discusting behaviour of bridget off big brother, and her father who went to bat for her who demonstrated that he felt she is more important than everyone else.


Han Solo routine "We're all fine here, thanks. How are you?" *weapons fire* "It was a boring conversation anyway!"
Although I do not believe some of the things Jon has suggested in regards to leading the world polluters many of his other comments ring true, a good many.

We do have to consider if we have improved in the last 30 years or so, then look back a 100 years and so forth.

We have and we are, parents in many cases do make an effort to spend time with their children and no longer is there the out sight out of mind structure in many cases. Children are welcome into adult conversation.

Through many of the extra information that they receive in their daily lives they do adapt and adjust to it and media is one of the biggest influences of society.

They watch things on T.V. at 5 and 6 that I would not be allowed to watch till 13, we drive them every where and make them reliant on us. Fast food is no longer for special events but supplement cooking. We want schools and teachers to play a more responsible role in regards to our childs behaviour yet we set bad examples at home.

Now thats the stuff we can control, as soon as our children socialise they learn about other environments and interactions, then we look at what effect their other home has upon them and the battle becomes that much harder.

Although I didn't see or read what you have mentioned about the person off big brother I would suggest the father didn't go into bat for his daughter but to rather defend how she has been parented and don't forget with the media you only see what they want you to.

Perhaps too many parents want to be their childrens friends and simply have forgotten they are parents.

At the end of the day we can't blame the government they are simply a reflection of society and what society wants, I guess they want to be our friend too rather than the parent.  
DFE and Monster its all good. :thumbs:
 If were to ask ourselves 'what does the future hold' in terms of healthy existence for our children and ourselves there are a whole lot of things that we put up with and have grown used to that we might question if we thought we could improve things.

In Canberra we are the biggest polluters per head of population -in the world - we have one of the highest rates of divorce, highest rates of lesbianism, highest incomes, highest education etc.
These are just measures - what is right and what needs to be changed?

Governments need to INTERFERE LESS. The amount of MONEY they THROW AROUND and TAKE FROM WORKERS is enormous. Workers are seen as money makers, tax producers and supporters of their 'dependents' (even post divorce and death) - and treated like the slaves the government wants them to be ,etc etc.

Its a sick,sick place at the moment and little sign of getting better. How will out children survive?

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
I wonder if we should look at per head of population in regards to pollution or move into land mass.

We have a high level of support in the country and even people who are on benefits can still drink, smoke and run a vehicle as well as afford more than just staples.

Other less fortunate countries population can afford much less and in relation to consumers may be much higher at producing emissions but statistically because of population denoted as less.

In relation to our emissions we are taking into account the island continent of Australia around is is ocean and wind  with a fair distance to the next continent, to look at the northern hemisphere it is condensed with many countries that each emit significant pollution, add them together and divide their mass I should expect may make quite a difference.

I respectfully admit that the world is at crisis point in many areas and need to find alternate fuel sources and increased technological research to be ready for change when it does arrive in the future, perhaps not ours but the future non the less.

Although the information in regards to whether the problem is a thermal pattern as described in differing ways by some or is in fact global warming due to our opulence it's irrespective the bottom line is we need to change.

Canberra does not sound like a nice place and it perplexes me why natives of Lesbo's  would accumulate specifically in Canberra they usually prefer to be close to the see, go figure.

Again although the government do take their palm of gold from all and what they spend this on is questionable we still enjoy the freedom of a pampered society that can criticise them for this.

There are always better ways to do things but when considering other shores we are very fortunate, more to the point we can exact change through what we do.

Our social structure is very good and we are teaching our children the need for change and instilling in them how to care for the environment, agreed we need to give them better ethics over all but many out there exist with amazing values and ethics but we are preparing our children what concerns me more is who is preparing the children of other countries and the governments that run them ?????      
All good points - its not really too much about good or bad ( although that's important) its about the questions.

I agree with the arts thing for people - but why - BECAUSE its humanistic - that is to say its not the COG BASED, BOTTOM LINE,ECONOMIC MODEL which governments have been drawn more and more to.

We need to allow HUMANS to be HUMAN - not just part of an economic model. No one in government seems to be able to EVEN QUESTION VALUES without some policy and finance dude telling them what the boundaries are.

The worst recent example of domination of economics over people and common sense was the sub-prime meltdown (still going on)  (or americans building bigger houses for all). The US and UK governments PROPPED UP the institutions who gambled and lost - but NOT ONLY THAT - US HANDED OUT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THE POPULATION SO THEY COULD CONTINUE CONSUMING.

To understand  that - rather than individuals having to tighten their belts due to the reality,  the government handed out billions so people could spend money on coffee, cars, shares - or whatever they liked so the consumer society could be sustained.

This models humans as cogs in a model.

SO yes we need to develop a world where PEOPLE are valued - individually and collectively, where arts, music, creativity, diversity, culture, family, ethics, hard work, profit, sport, history, languages, nature are valued.

This means providing an environment for ALL (not just the elite) which includes MEN, WOMEN, CHILDREN, MIGRANTS, TOURISTS,OLD, YOUNG, DISABLED, DIFFERENT etc. Fear and distrust has to be removed, repression has to be removed. political correctness has to be removed and replaced by HONEST and OPEN discussion (if we can find people capable of that)

There is NO SIGN that this government has a clue. Instead of SAVING MEN who are dieing, self destructing, disparing  - THE FIRST THING THEY DID WAS SAVE THE WHALES.

So lets ask the questions - (As much as I enjoy Cate Blanchett's acting I don't thing she is in a better position than anyone else to get the questions right - even if the prime minister thinks so)

Last edit: by Jon Pearson

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
If we as a world were truly serious about the worlds problem it would have to follow with population control and integration.  We live in a very balanced eco system and we are doing our best to remove the natural control methods that could cull the population.

We have moved far away from the tribal system where everything was close by and the tribe worked together to a tribal system that spans continents and the value of the individual is lessened to the point if they were taken out of the cog another immediately takes their place and there is little if any sense of loss. Who really cares if someone who made your T.V. is dead.

Simple truth is until a catastrophic event changes society ( well consumer society anyway  ) we will have to evolve to accommodate what is going on.

I have no doubt that if most parents had to do courses or learned at school how to basic parent things would improve.
Encouragement to accept and explore, encouragement to have good work ethics and every other positive thing under the sun will help.

As in America they know if they don't prop up the consumers they will self implode, it was the only decision that could have been made and most government with the style of society we have would do the same.   Any reduction in this spending to a major degree will plummet a country such as ours into recession and then depression. If you take away those who trade in consumable you automatically reduce the amount of people employed, then they can not afford to buy consumables and a knee jerk reaction would be others businesses would not be needed and like dominoes all the way back to your prime industries. We as a country can not survive of the back of our mining industry although I'm sure their profit would increase due to many willing bodies willing to do the same work for less money.

The best we can hope for is to teach our children how to adapt and still care for others.

There are complex social issues that need to be brought to the fore concerning this country but you won't address them by stopping us being a consumer society.

D4E I agree with you, "The best we can hope for is to teach our children how to adapt and still care for others." To be more pointed, people need to be caused to stop the self centred attitudes they run their lives by and start looking at the conflict they are creating.

Not only in their small worlds but the ripple effect they are having on all.

You say "There are complex social issues that need to be brought to the fore concerning this country but you won't address them by stopping us being a consumer society." You can never stop the world being a consumer society because we don't all own land to sustain our every day food requirements.

It is the profit margins that need to be looked at of those who have a hand in the supply of the consumables required to sustain life.

The price to the producer has not increased in the same way it has to the customer, the price to the customer has been blown out of proportion by the profit margins of the marketer like the supermarket that has reduced competition and often sets the market value of the product being sold.

It was not long ago that margins of 100% were an offence against society. Now discounts of 50-100% are common claims by marketers. To afford a 50% discount you have to have made a 100% mark-up on the cost of the item just to recover your $'s outlaid at the purchase, no costs recovered of profit made. When I was in the retail area a 50% mark-up on cost for most items was standard and returned the cost of purchase, the cost of the shop, wages and up to a 30%  profit margin subject to the turnover rate and cost of capital borrowed.

High cost fast turnover, like sell before I bought items, could be sold as low as a 10% margin on total cost because I was paid before I laid out any capital.

If you go into the wealth of a country or person, it is shown more by the savings of the persons of that country than the turnover of consumables. If the cost of the consumables (wanted and/or needed) is stripping the savings of the people then you cause a borrowing mentality to install which adds to the loss of the value of the dollar spent. This is because the interest on the dollar spent (credit cards and the like) depletes the value to the consumer of their dollars to spend.

Just basic accounting that the average Joe Blow does not want to remember because if Joe Blow remembered things bought on credit added 15-50% and more to the cost then the mentality of I WANT IT NOW would diminish and the mentality of the Child is mine to do with as I say would also diminish. The mind gravitates to common thinking practices hence you see those that are use to getting their own way when they want something applying this thinking to all aspects of their lives not just consumable chattels.

It is like the Court saying we want to reduce the need for people to come to court to settle their disagreements but not cause or encourage a law of agreement to enforce the agreements made (parenting plans and FDRA's) other than those agreement cause to be Court Orders.  This can only be to ensure court proceedings are required to settle peoples Wants (to control the child and other parent) over Needs (of the child and all family members to interact with the child for the child to reach their maximum potential and emotional wellbeing).

Just like the reduction of competition in the market place ensures the supermarket, what to me is criminally, high margins put on their products. That unless the consumer watch dog is given greater powers to determine a profit margin on cost is too great then the supermarkets will continue the profiteering in the name of the shareholder.

No argument there LIS there are many similarities and lines between the posts and this would have to include everyone who has posted. When I do read posts many of the same and like thoughts and ideas do come in parallels possibly because they have played on social conscious for some time and have been echoed before in people's postings.

There is little doubt the world is out of control but if we reflect honestly it's never been in control, and if we are along for the ride lets hope we can help our future generations in a small way.

With the onset of communication and the direction it has taken we are visually aware of what is out there, war and suffering desensitise us to the point we are just glad it's not us yet still do not appreciate it is not us.

We are what Jon describes warts and all we are our own nemesis.

Funny thing is to exact anything more than we can personally do we would need the intervention of the government and further again the worlds governments to make significant change, you have a better chance at understanding string theory and proving it's existence.

I wonder if it's possible for a more egotistical life form to exist anywhere in the universe. We are after all so very fragile.
Governments can do things. They are encumbered with
  1. The ecomonists
  2. Politically correct
  3. Elite

At best the greens focused on the environment.
In total the focus should be humanity, the wonder of humans and their creativity and ability to produce and work,balance and inclusiveness, principles, less intrusiveness and repression.

If the country is on a slide to nowhere fast someone has to fix it - this requires more than short term thinking, political point scoring, and keeping certain voting blocks happy, - it requires leadership (something we are not likely to have for some time - if ever) not control freaks and administrators

A story - excise on petrol was brought in to fund alternatives in the 70s (last oil crises). Now the money goes into consolidated revenue and no-one has the guts to spend the money on alternative energy (like the Australian guy who developed the worlds biggest solar energy business and asked the Australian Gov for money and was ignored and hence moved his business to China) or either reduce excise and GST on petrol to ZERO.

I know - lets tax alcopops - now there's a well thought out scheme.

This lack of depth in the government and opposition really holds this country back. Fat dumb and lazy should be the Australian motto.

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
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