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Book: If Men Have All the Power, How Come Women Make the Rules

Radical thoughts for men who want more fairness from women.

Playing Devil's Avocado.  Attached for the interest of Jon, Monaro, etc …

If Men Have All the Power, How Come Women Make the Rules (2nd Ed)
By Jack Kammer, 2002
Naomi Wolf in her 1993 book Fire With Fire said
Looking at how easy it is for women to treat men in cruel ways is oddly liberating.

Any man would be damaged by the allegation that "he doesn't respect women."

So why is it so hard to imagine that any woman would be hurt by the charge that "she doesn't respect men?"


Attachment
If Men Have All the Power, How Come Women Make the Rules


The attached book is also available free from the author's website:
ERROR: A link was posted here (url) but it appears to be a broken link.
Download the book for free.


(Even our own dreaded Lindsay Jäckel gets a passing mention in the book.  "Typical!" some may bemoan.)

Why post this here?  Because there are anti-father (misandrous) people, recently arrived to the forum, seeking to diminish and dismiss the overwhelming bias in family law and child support (and the more generally in government, media and society) against fathers, when compared to any minimal 'injustices' experienced by mothers. (Pointing this disparity out does not deny those injustices, but rather to put them in perspective of the much broader and greater bias and injustices experienced by fathers.)

They are seeking to equate the two, thus denying the experiences of many fathers, and to derail (obfuscate) discussion of the biases against and losses them (witness the recent red herrings and rabbit trails derailing attempt in the men's health and suicide thread Rudd Government Men's Health Initiatives).

Remember DDDD: Deny - Dismiss - Derail - Diminish.

Additionally, such individuals will project their own feminist gender agenda by running around busily seeking to hose down evident truths by warning that "this is not a gender issue" and "we don't want to turn this into a gender issue".  What this does is highlight how they think about and see things, and that they indeed do see matters along gender lines.  And their hidden agenda is correct up to a point, because gender is an issue, but the reality is the opposite to what they believe: the majority bias is against fathers.  They are wrong in trying to deny this very bias.  Perhaps such activity is a manifestation of Holocaust Denial Syndrome?!!

(Projection is a psychological concept whereby a person interprets and characterises what others do and say from their own motivations and thoughts.  Some will try and use DDDD to point the finger back at me and so we dance around the circle!)

Over time, and with more arrivals, this will only get worse.  Sadly, it will cause much offence … and much wasted time.  Time that could, and should, be better used to help and support hurting and harmed fathers reconnect with their children.
dad4life said
(Even our own dreaded Lindsay Jackel gets a passing mention in the book.  "Typical!" some may bemoan.)
  Sorry, I scanned through twice and didn't see it. What page are you mentioned on?



Good Find dad4life.

I had a quick skim. I see that Dr Warren Farrell has a small mention.

I have three daughters and am trying so hard to educate them against feminism.

I strongly believe there should be equality in all facets of humanity, but as long as feminism prevails equality will not exist.

Yes Agog … back to my preparation!

monaro said
i have three daughters and am trying so hard to educate them against femenism, i strongly beleive there should be equality in all facets of humanity and as long as femenism prevails equality will not exist.
monaro

Feminism is about equality not preference.

Macquarie dictionary definition:

feminism: advocacy of equal rights and opportunities for women (my emphasis)
equality: the state of being equal; (don't you love how dictionaries do that)
equal: as great as another; evenly proportioned or balanced

You may find other definitions elsewhere, but I chose the Macquarie dictionary because it claims to be " Australia's National Dictionary" and it was (probably still is) the prescribed dictionary in Kiwi schools when those of our era were in school, so hopefully that works for both Aussies and expats.

Is femenism something different to feminism?



Monaro, if you teach your girls to be fair minded, treat people equally and expect equal treatment from others - you will be well on your way.

While the dictionary definition may have the word "equal" in it, the reality is closer to what you have if you remove that word.

In my opinion, single, white, middle-aged (35-45) year old men are some of the most disenfranchised in the world.

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
It's a great shame that many of those that fly the flag of feminism do not read that dictionary. Perhaps if they did, then people like myself could also be treated fairly and that people like my son need not suffer for many years.
Monaro, if you teach your girls to be fair minded, treat people equally and expect equal treatment from others - you will be well on your way. said
  my eldest daughter now 17 is  greenpeace, save the whales, flowers etc and plays the guitar like knoffler, she cannot stand women degrading men and men- women, my second girl, is following suit and my youngest likes ponies and walking our teacup chiwawa

MikeT said
It's a great shame that many of those that fly the flag of feminism do not read that dictionary. Perhaps if they did, then people like myself could also be treated fairly and that people like my son need not suffer for many years.
 
  Mike

 That is why I put it there.

This point about what words mean and the meanings we give them for our own purposes was debated by Alice and Humpty Dumpty in Alice Through The Looking Glass
Alice Through the Looking Glass said
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean different things."
 
People who fly the flag of feminism do need to remember what it actually means.

People who are raising sons and daughters also need to know what it means, and what it does not mean.

monaro said
Monaro, if you teach your girls to be fair minded, treat people equally and expect equal treatment from others - you will be well on your way. said
 my eldest daughter now 17 is greenpeace, save the whales, flowers etc and plays the guitar like knoffler, she cannot stand women degrading men and men- women, my second girl, is following suit and my youngest likes ponies and walking our teacup chiwawa
 
Way to go monaro's girls! No degrading in either direction is what we need, and if we stick with the dictionary, feminism like, totally goes for that.  I personally prefer humanism because it saves a lot of semantic debate.

Interesting side-track, Monaro, but since we are in Hyde Park anyway, is your save the whales daughter vegetarian?

My egalitarian, humanist rather than feminist, ethical vegetarian daughter recently called me to account on that one.

I happily eat cows and pigs but am totally 'save the whale', and happy to imposse that view on other nations which is of course a contradiction in ethics unless I can come up with a relevant difference between whales and cows which allows me to take one life for food but not the other.

I think there are relevant differences, what say you and your daughters?



Feminism is about envy and greed, power and control

BriarRose said
Sorry, I scanned through twice and didn't see it. What page are you (sic) mentioned on?
I used Find/Search.  Page 214 of copy attached on FLWG.  Page 205 of copy downloaded from RulyMob website.
BriarRose said
Feminism is about equality not preference.

Macquarie dictionary definition:

feminism: advocacy of equal rights and opportunities for women
Sadly the dictionary definitions do not reflect the reality of what feminism is and what feminists do.  Such dictionary definitions are misleading.

In truth, feminism is just matriarchy (rule by women) re-badged.

The reality is that feminism is a political ideology (not a birth group. eg females) and is motivated by envy and greed.  Its desire and goal is to establish and maintain power and control over men and children, and for that to be supported by and at the expense of males (men and boys are expected to provide for females and to lose out for themselves).  And typically it is underpinned and mixed with a sizeable dose of misandry (male hating).

For some, the feminist ideology borders on being a religion, in that both similarly provide a framework (underpinned by belief(s) and faith) for seeing, interpreting and making sense of, understanding and acting in the world.  Many religious people get upset when their religion is questioned or exposed.  They will seek use the 4Ds mentioned by D4L in the first post of this thread.

A more genuine and ungendered name for such a movement for true equality might have been "Equalism".
BriarRose said
Interesting side-track, Monaro, but since we are in Hyde Park anyway, is your save the whales daughter vegetarian?
Not nice Katie.  This is a cheap shot at monaro and his parenting.  Better to play the ball and not the man (ie. stick to the issues).

PS. This is not the "Hyde Park" forum area, but the Devil's Advocate forum area.
Briar Rose said
I personally prefer humanism because it saves a lot of semantic debate.

I normally say, as according to Humpty's sort of attitude, peopleism. :)
matrix said
 Page 214 of copy attached on FLWG.  Page 205 of copy downloaded from RulyMob website.
Thank you.
 
matrix said
The reality is that feminism is a political ideology (not a birth group. eg females) and is motivated by envy and greed. 
 Thanks for acknowledging that not all females are feminist.

To extend that, not all opinions from females are feminist.

Feminism was not started with an agenda of greed and envy.
It was started by men and women who were concerned that women were not even allowed to be citizens in their own country.
 
matrix said
A more genuine and ungendered name for such a movement for true equality might have been "Equalism".
 It would have been, and we can still use it here if we want to start something.  Personally, I like it for the built in reminder.

 
matrix said
BriarRose said
Interesting side-track, Monaro, but since we are in Hyde Park anyway, is your save the whales daughter vegetarian?
Not nice BriarRose.  This is a cheap shot at monaro and his parenting.  Better to play the ball and not the man (ie. stick to the issues).
 
That is simply not true.

Please read it again in context.

It was actually an affirmation of monaro's parenting and a questioning of my own ethical integrity.

Since this is Hyde Park, off topic is OK.



The expectations of those who label themselves by a product name though misinterpret the ideology of the true name basically give us what we consider to be Feminists.

Because there are true believers that once equality is reached the battle is over and we can all get along it's hard to expose the reality that has some who excessively promote one genders rights above all others.

I really don't think BriarRose is one of the later but rather is like many who try for balance .

As far as the whales go, well I'd rather see an animal used to it's full capacity with all it's body being used to support people than scientific experiment. Though if in our waters we have a right to say " no " if in international waters we have the right to follow procedural channels.

We really should be adopting to farm out resources and reduce culling into meat production.

A nice bit of Roo, Bandicoot or Emu on the plate would not be turned away by me, come to think of it neither would minki burgers.

They are all kinder to the enviroment
 
D4E said
The expectations of those who label themselves by a product name though misinterpret the ideology of the true name basically give us what we consider to be Feminists.

Because there are true believers that once equality is reached the battle is over and we can all get along it's hard to expose the reality that has some who excessively promote one genders rights above all others.

 
Thank you, common sense as always.

Is that a vote for equalism as the word of choice?

So far we have equalism. peopleism, and humanism.



I think the correct term is Egalitarianism.

(and last time I checked, cows were not endangered  :thumbs: , I like meat)

Junior Executive of SRL-Resources

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (Look for the Avatars). Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
No cows aren't endangered but you get more pound of flesh out of one minki.

I do believe that the Rudd government may align itself with the squeaky wheel of the loud minority and increase negative propaganda against males and increase the social carnage that a select number of females promote.

Myself brought up old school to respect a persons voice until they lose your respect, treat women like ladies and open the car door but encourage exercise by leaving the toilet seat up.

I've never sat on the porcelain to do a number 2 unless the seat was missing.

I do think there is a lot to be said about the weapon of feminism but the reality is the radicals are a small percentage of all women hood.

There is also a big difference in regards to those mothers who excuse H.A.P., P.A.S. and other such destructive tools to destroy the childrens father whilst using the assistance of feminist organizations.

They become the falsified statistical information that drive the engines for the radicals.

But they are a the select few top percentage.

I guess this makes me, well just me ?
D4E said
the reality is the radicals are a small percentage of all women hood

I wouldn't disagree with that, however that small percentage has done a great deal to convince society that males are the less worthy rather than that some males and some females. i.e. some people are less worthy and that it is not their gender, it is them that makes this so.

I would love to be considered just a parent perhaps or perhaps not as good a parent as my ex. However I am only considered less of a parent because of my gender, not for any other reason. I have no doubt should nothing about either of us be changed other than the gender then the entire situation would have far different. The same applies not only for me as a parent but in other areas as well. Work is one example, where gender selection is used simply so the company can say we treat people equally, they even have forums to discus this "gender equality" as with many other such companies, the name itself is not doesn't even adhere to this.

Why am I expected to be accept discrimination against myself for what was purportedly discrimination in years gone by, in the name of not discriminating?
Artemis said
I think the correct term is Egalitarianism.

(and last time I checked, cows were not endangered  :thumbs: , I like meat)
 
Egalitarianisn is the correct term and a more elegant word but I liked the suggested equalism because it contains the word equal as a very unsuble reminder that it is not about preference.

I like meat too, and I put a high value on freedom.  Cows farmed in a humane way (interesting word choice!) are fair eating as far as I am concerned.  Anything intelligent and roaming free in the oceans is not. 

Not that I value intelligence, but I want to eat ocean going fish.



Perhaps society is adjusting at such a rate that ideals are simply not moving quick enough.

We are all aware of the bias that does exist in regard to gender but are we aware that our roles are changing ?

I guess to express what I'm conceiving as time goes on and more collation of ideals and changes are classing is to reflect back on a time when I was surfing with some friends, none of knew much about what we were doing but having a ball. The swell picked up and we had some decent size waves come through but they didn't form too well and broke all over the shop, after a short time a clash started to happen as the water rushed back to the sea and collided with the waves form the sea. the ensuing clash forced water straight up in a sheet.

I think this is the stage we are at now.

Fathers from some time back had no expectation of having decent contact with their kids and moved on to another family or a new family, no real pressure and possibly a good deal of warning to not bother coming back combined with an adversarial " you'll never see me again ". Simply how it was and it didn't involve feminism it just was.

More and more fathers began to feel that this wasn't right and they deserved to know their children and be part of their lives and in fact this should be as normal as waking up in the morning.

Out of fear, defense or what ever other reason this reduced certain things mothers felt gave them purpose in some or many instances, mostly to do with society of the time.

With the ebb and flow of society it takes time to adjust to new ways of thinking, we all who frequent support mechanisms should be aiming for education and acceptance of making things equal for both parents but it will be some time before it will be socially acceptable.

There will be radicals on both sides, to this there is little doubt and there will be support groups that encourage the radicals and will always be.

I would never ask of anyone that they except being discriminated against or that they do not enter into discussion on such topics especially where a voice can be heard.

Though I would suggest that sometimes we do become oversensitive to those who support us because of our own gender assimilation which just happens to be what many of us are fighting against.

Three mothers allowed their daughter to sleep over for my daughters birthday with myself the only adult, how can I claim discrimination from normal mothers ?

The system moves slow and it will take time for changes to come but we are fortunate enough to have a strong community out there who support dads as well as all who work so hard to make those changes.

You can't see the under tow of change but it is happening.

I agree at this time there is an extensive amount of radicals, feminist associated abuse on men in many ways and it could be considered to be increasing. I hope this increase is a subtle death gurgle of desperation, at the same time we need to stand and say I am equal.

By no means do I have the answers but I educate as many people as possible about a fathers worth and just how important we are to our children.

I was shocked and touched to be considered equal and not assimilated with horror stories, it really did fill me with pride.

Just normal people.



When governments systematically abuse one group of people its different to individuals doing it. The stark statistics of dead men, injured men, men in jails here (and in other countries) is not seen as a problem that needs to be fixed - rather its seen as a justification of the deserved and justified state of men. Until the 'state' seeks equality - not be killing more women, jailing more women etc - but by eliminating the causes - we will continue to see people (ignorant, sneering and vicious) claim to be superior and better (normally based on their insecurities) as they continue their need to denigrate and put down others to support not only their moral position but gouge the financial support from the governments they have become used to seeing as their own special support fund.

 Maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
D4E said
Three mothers allowed their daughter to sleep over for my daughters birthday with myself the only adult, how can I claim discrimination from normal mothers ?

Possibly because you have said this. If you were a female/mother would this even have been considered as any sort of issue (uhm not sure what word I should have used, not an issue really, not a reward) by yourself? I'm not sure I'm getting across. I have no idea what the mothers thought, that's irrelevant, it's the thoughts that you have, that you may have considered something along the lines of "I'm a male wow they allowed this". It's not the mothers discriminating but society as such. I originally said possibly, I don't know, I just suspect that those thoughts might have entered into the situation.

D4E said
I was shocked and touched to be considered equal and not assimilated with horror stories, it really did fill me with pride.

I think this sort of confirms what I'm trying to say. Why should you feel shocked and touched, for what is a generous act by yourself?
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