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Overpaying ex CS. Let it be or try and get it back.

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One for the fathers with CS and their ex's spite.

The other day I got a phone call from the CSA telling me my ex wants to start going through the CSA and tying to claim I owe her even more. The thing is, since I decided to start for mediation I told myself that she is going to start getting dirty one way or another although she has been dirty for 7 years in denying my son his dad when she does not get her own way. So with an insight to her nature I have done an audit on myself. After an hour on the phone, with the CSA, I produced all my bank statements for the past 2 years. My ex in her mind had to confess to CSA that I have him 52 days a year.( shot herself in the foot.) Now going by the equations, with 52 days in my care, I am told I owed her nothing. And when I do the equation without the 52 days taken into consideration I owed her $1127.00 for that finacial year and have actually paid her $2561.00

Can I claim this back..? I actually just rather leave it for now, although the money could help ,since I was just put on the disability pension. All I want to do is really let her know that she was not as smart and entiltled a she thinks she is. For in one move she has checkmated herself and it is still early days yet.
Will you have an assessment from the C$A showing this?

You can ask for over payments back although C$A like to encourage payers to gift over payments to the payee as it make their collection figures look good.
Thanks Fairgo.

Well as for the CSA it is so confusing and I have to stop them double dipping. When I was working I paid CS privately on every payday after getting an estimate and a percentage to work out each payday, as no two pays were the same. Then I go on the dole and pay what CS works out again per fortnight..The problem is I do a tax return and they then say its is worked out now on my tax return and they wanted to increase CS out of my unemployment benefits. But I have already paid as I earned! So what are they saying? Wait for the finacial year to end and then pay a lump sum?  Honestly it is so confusing when you pay every payday and then they want the unemployment garnished because of the tax. Double dipping! Anyway when CSA told me the ex rang up and wanted everything private and wants more money I had to argue with the CSA lady that I have already paid CS. The CSA lady started to get her back up and then I told her the system is useless when it comes to understanding payday variables etc. She got so frustrated she left by saying "I'll go ahead and get you."

Later I went and reviewed three years of my finacial statements and rang up again I got a guy who was helpful and understood. Finally after more assesments they actually told me I don't owe anything, as I have my son 52 days and have overpaid.
Geez sounds like our story, just that the ex is withholding contact since October!
SM10.. Hang in there. I've been dealing with this for 7 years and now have collected enough material, and info, to know my sons best wishes will be finally met.

Well I just learned that if you are a good person and pay above and over CS, just to help with some further incidentals in a private agreement, it amounts to nothing. The CSA really don't acknowledge anything the payer does that, in a moral world, is the right thing. My ex decided to go thru CSA this week. Thus with spite,she has had CSA to look at the last three months she is claiming a double dip. What makes me boil is the day before her dates there is a record of the $120.00 I gave her extra for his swimming lessons. So since I was foolish enough to trust that there maybe some residue of "better angels" in her nature I was very, very wrong.

My advice to anyone who listens is, don't trust private agreements, and, as horrid as this sounds, don't pay anymore than you have to cause it don't matter a damn to the CSA. Thus is laughable to the ex whose only motherly instincts are mercenary in nature.
Very true, my husband ex tried and double dip as well. She moved away and we paid for 100 percent of the travel and private health and had regular care but she claimed below regular care since she withheld the kids over the most valuable time in the year (xmas). So she claimed arrears which CSA awarded. We paid above and beyond and it has never been enough. I think it's very low if access is used to increase CS. On top of that she quit her job and provides incorrect income details now… CS doubled and we haven't seen the kids since October.

We are doing mediation now and try to reach consent orders. We accept nothing but proper orders from now on. No private agreements or parenting plans. We will try and agree on child support though. If she doesn't want to, she's gotta deal with hassle from our side. CoAs, SSAt appeals and so on, as she is trying to milk my husband. He is no more then an ATM in her eyes.
Yeah, I hear you. We do have a very similar problem. I'm going through a legal aid mediation. While I was waiting to see if I was eligible for LA I also had family relationships mediation booked. I went to the initial meeting and instantly felt that the single , short cropped hair, non wedded man, I mean lady was not what I would call qualified to be in the middle. Thank God I got the call from LA that I was approved and after a few minutes he could see I was not there to rip into my ex but to be a voice for my son, since he is not allowed to ask his mom if he can stay a little while longer at my house.

I'd like to follow your progress, if you keep updating ,as I'm in the early days till mediation but in the final end game. Your case is much like mine.
We are currently going through this sort of thing - CSA back dated and took $4k too much, now we are fighting to get it back.
We are going through SSAT at the moment, just had their phone call saying what they need etc for the hearing… Good luck with yours. I will let you know how ours goes…
We put everything in with the SSAt also, mediation is in the end of the month (both parties). Hoping to see the children next holidays, after almost 6month of not seeing them, cause the ex was money hungry and decided, after 5 years to pull this.
storez, sm10, .Thanks for the replies.It so much to know that this problem is wide spread and it is a very real issue. Yeah after reading all the info I contacted SSAT on Friday.

Please let me know how things are going I am completely alone on this. My son and I, that's all there is. I have no parents and family and so much want one unconditional relationship in my life.

"class action"comes to mind with all this stuff with CSA. Also a chill runs down my spine since I have become awakened to the Family Law and CSA. I honestly feel like we are in the dark ages where ignorance, greed and institutionalised corruption are the driving force behind the decision makers and we are the heretics for wanting a fair go.

"The Red Queen theory"..' It takes all the running you can do to to keep in the same place. A fight to survive in a ever changing hostile environment.
Ossman - I would write a letter of complaint against the employee that said they will get you.

If your income is stable then it is better to stay off estimates and let it all happen when you put your tax return in. If your income is dropping then use estimates. It is better to under estimate your income and over estimate it.

Remember when estimating your income you are estimating your taxable income which means taking into consideration tax deductions, rental gains/losses and investment gains/losses.

Losses will be added back as income so the best situation may be to offset a gain with a loss, then nothing is added back.


Thanks Fairgo. My income has been all over the place previously due to the nature of my previous career and I always was transparent to her and the CSA. 
I have been put on a disability pension now and made the mistake of letting my guard down as I was busy trying to win my physical health battle.

But your right overpaying was best. But now I'm not really after the money and don't expect it without an audit and SSAT. I'm just trying to educate her and I know if it is a court,. appeals tribunal or even mediation she will probably resist attending, like in the past. Everyone is wrong except her. Mind you this the person who tried to persuade me not to get chemo as I might be too sick when she wants to go out partying or on the nights she has her boyfriend staying.
Fairgo said
Losses will be added back as income so the best situation may be to offset a gain with a loss, then nothing is added back.

  Fairgo,  can you explain a bit more about this?
I thought any losses were added back AND gains are also added
Your income is the amount of fisical folding plastic stuff that has a currency value enabling you to buy your everyday living expenses.

Business losses are a paper loss and not an income of any sort of currency, so how can it be added back onto your income.
taylor said
Your income is the amount of fisical folding plastic stuff that has a currency value enabling you to buy your everyday living expenses.

Business losses are a paper loss and not an income of any sort of currency, so how can it be added back onto your income.
 
Good question and one I asked myself when they did it to me.
taylor said
Business losses are a paper loss and not an income of any sort of currency, so how can it be added back onto your income.
Yes Taylor, that is of course the reality of basic Accounting.

However in CSA Bizarro World, business losses, depreciation and expenses are added onto your actual taxable income to produce a "Deem & Destroy" income that the Trolls will use to fabricate ficticious assessments & debts.

I had one Troll decide that the postage I pay to send out products purchased from me was not a real expense to me because the customer pays for it…
Yes net losses are added back to form the adjusted income for both child support and Family Benefit purposes. As Capital Gains form part of your taxable income anyway there is nothing special that happens here.

You can avoid having net losses added back if you can offset them with net gain for example if you have two rentals where one runs at a 3k loss each year and the other a 3k gain, then the loss is offset by the gain so you have neither a gain or net loss to report to the ATO and there is nothing C$A or FAO can do about it UNLESS you are significantly better off than the ex and they take you through a deem and destroy change of assessment process with C$A where they will just deem your income higher regardless the tax law etc… in order for the ex to have more cash and in turn allow Family benefits to be clawed back from her as a result of higher child support. The winners are the Gov and Ex - loser is the payer.

A lot of us do not agree with this process as it effectively reopens the property settlement between the parents when the court has already decided on a fair distribution of assets between the parents. The C$A effectively has the same powers as a court Judge.

Last edit: by Fairgo

Fairgo said
Yes net losses are added back to form the adjusted income for both child support and Family Benefit purposes. As Capital Gains form part of your taxable income anyway there is nothing special that happens here.

You can avoid having net losses added back if you can offset them with net gain for example if you have two rentals where one runs at a 3k loss each year and the other a 3k gain, then the loss is offset by the gain so you have neither a gain or net loss to report to the ATO and there is nothing C$A or FAO can do about it UNLESS you are significantly better off than the ex and they take you through a deem and destroy change of assessment process with C$A where they will just deem your income higher regardless the tax law etc… in order for the ex to have more cash and in turn allow Family benefits to be clawed back from her as a result of higher child support. The winners are the Gov and Ex - loser is the payer.

A lot of us do not agree with this process as it effectively reopens the property settlement between the parents when the court has already decided on a fair distribution of assets between the parents. The C$A effectively has the same powers as a court Judge.
 
Sorry,but net business losses have nothing to do with capital gains, they are an operating issue. Adding them as income is simply not justifiable.

Moreover, they will often add operating costs as income. For example, my lease costs on my work van were added twice as income during a COA and then not taken away as expenses, meaning I ended up with an assessment that overestimated my income by twice the cost of that lease, or about $13000. The Ombudsman has also been scathing about this sort of thing in relation to depreciation and other legitimate business expenses.

Ossman, I've had CSA extortionists say things like "if you don't cooperate [by agreeing to talk on the phone when I had been "write-only" for over 5 years] I'll mark you down as refusing to pay".

Just for reference, it's a clear breach of the Criminal Code carrying a maximum penalty of a year in jail if they try anything like that on you. Record everything…
Craigo my advice only relates to personal tax returns as I assumed this is what whatbus was referring to in their question.

What you are describing is the 'deem and destroy' actions through the change of assessment process that C$A enact against self employed or small business payers.
Fairgo said
Yes net losses are added back to form the adjusted income for both child support and Family Benefit purposes. As Capital Gains form part of your taxable income anyway there is nothing special that happens here.

  Can I make a note on the Capital Gains issue forming part of your taxable income? As a one off capital gain in one financial year does not mean the person has the same income the following financial year, that person can put in an estimate for the following year after tax return has been submitted and have cs assessment amended accordingly.
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