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The new formula - Is it working correctly with 3+ children

During the testing of the calculator one thing I found very interesting is the fact that after 3 children the amount payable does not change

The SPCA has been working with the technical staff and programmers at the Family Law Web Guide site. We are in the final stages of releasing a new (really neat) calculator for calculations of the new Child Support rates which commence July 1 2008.

During the testing of the calculator one thing I found very interesting is the fact that after 3 children the amount payable does not change (Unlike current) . So if you had 10 children the amount payable is the same as 3 children.
 
What this means is if you are smart you will only ever have 3 children to one dad. The formula appears to stop at 3+ children.
 
What this also means is delinquent mums who want to retire on child support will need to ensure they have more than one dad after three children
 
Any corroboration?  :dry:

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Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
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There is (needless to say) a practical limit to the child-bearing capacity of any woman, including a woman who has financial maximisation from child support in mind.

If we assume, for the sake of argument, that the limit of child-bearing capacity is nine children:

The present ("old") Scheme -
Under the present Scheme, a woman who has three children with each of three different men, each man having a child support income of say $50,000, will be able to claim (subject to adjustment on account of the "disregarded income" limit) for 32% plus 32% plus 32%, i.e., 96% of $50,000.
But a woman who has one child with each of nine different men, each man having a child support income of say $50,000, will be able to claim (subject to adjustment on account of the "disregarded income" limit) for 18% plus 18% plus 18% plus 18% plus 18% plus 18% plus 18% plus 18% plus 18%, i.e., 162% of $50,000.   This result would be influenced by whether the men concerned also had other "child support children".

If financial maximisation is the objective, then the "smart woman" in that sense, under the present Scheme, would be the second one.  

I am not suggesting that financial maximisation would, except in very rare cases, actually be the objective, or that either of the above scenarios is realistic.

The new Scheme -
In relation to the new Scheme, page 62 of the Parkinson report states that:

"Carers with children of different liable parents "Where a carer has children with different non resident parents, the liability of each parent is calculated separately, and no cap applies."

And Recommendation 1.22 states that:

"Where a resident parent cares for a number of children with different non resident parents, each of the child support liabilities of the non-resident parents should be calculated separately, without regard to the existence of the other child or children."
In this respect the new Scheme is therefore much the same as the old.

According to Table A, the cost of children, on page 148 of the Parkinson report, at a "parents combined child support income (income above the self support amounts)" of $50,649, the child support rate for the payer works out to about 16% for one child and about 26% for three or more children.  

This indicates that the effect of the "old" Scheme in this regard is similar to the new Scheme, and the same conclusions apply as under the "old" Scheme.

Please let me know if you disagree with the above.  :|
Firstly 3+ is where the formula cuts off and I had assumed 9 different blokes might not have been practical however it was more likley 2 or 3 different blokes I had in mind.

The legislative formula as advised to us by FaCSIA does not impliment any of the following:
 
"Carers with children of different liable parents "Where a carer has children with different non resident parents, the liability of each parent is calculated separately, and no cap applies."

And Recommendation 1.22 states that:

"Where a resident parent cares for a number of children with different non resident parents, each of the child support liabilities of the non-resident parents should be calculated separately, without regard to the existence of the other child or children."

Now it may well take this sort of VIEW of the old legislation in the way that the 3+ (about 26% for three or more children) is calculated and the less than 3 children so it is rounding the posistions so to speak. However it does not at all cater for 4, 5, 6 7, 8 9+ children based on the costs of children. My collegue has 6 girls all under 10. Under the old system he would have paid a LOT more than the new. So my assumption is the single mother looking after 6 children for example is worse off especially if the dad meets 24% or more of care
  • If a non-resident parent has between 14% and 34% care (ie: between 1 and 5 nights per fortnight), they are taken to be meeting 24% of the costs of children through providing that care.  Their liability will be reduced accordingly.  -  (This is known as a 'credit for care')
It looks more than just a moving of the deck chairs to me. I think mums are going to be significantly affected if they have many more than 3 children… The new Child Support Calculator should be available mid week I would like you to test it. What has suprised me is the compexity in the way the formula is calculated. The average person will simply not be able to do it without a calculator and especially when we start looking at how FTB is calculated. I can sort out easily FTB part A but part B and the vast array of associated benifits that go with it is extremly complicated.  :ninja:

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
I think there have been cases of 5 children to 4 Fathers. But a good Fraulein (who would have received the Hitler Cross for bearing 9 children) would certainly do very well if she spilt them between 3 Fathers.

(Perhaps there is a secret agenda to increase the childbirth rate this way TIC)

There is another element in the child support arena that is often overlooked - the overall 'pool' when there are several fathers who contribute unequal amounts. Dad A who pays $50 per week for his 2 children and Dad B paying the Mother $200 per week for his 1 child.

Is Dad B being realistically assesed? because you can be certain that Dad B money is also going toward the other children and effectively subsidising another parents children.


Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
You will be able to run up the scenario next week in the calculator. The point I made was the formula only calculates to 3+ children and then that is the limit. There is no consideration for multiple dads.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
I am really excited about the prospect of seeing a new Child Support Calculator… Well done team… :thumbs:  :rockon: :rockon:

Last edit: by OneRingRules

Threshold is 52 nights/days......

I have had a play with the new calculator. The threshold has been brought down to 52 days. This got me curious, as I wanted to know over what period. Is it per financial year or Child support year (the CSA year is 15 months). I rang the CSA and spoke to a case officer. It appears they haven't been trained yet on the new changes. However this CSA lady clearly said we have to have 52 nights over 15 months which is the Child support period. The other thing the CSA lady advised was that we needed to keep proof of contact. A proof that shows when the contact occured. They do expect disputes about this between the parents, in particular in cases where the payee receives significantly less money. So everyone please start documenting your contact. I would expect at least a spreadsheet. I have a template ready that I can make available.

I then asked the CSA lady how they know how many nights/days we spend with our children. This seemed to be a grey area. First the lady said we have to tell them. I then asked when we should do that and she didnt know. Then she guessed they will contact us with a questionnaire. We still have over a year to go, so in the event I dont hear anything from anyone I will just contact the CSA. I will bring this question up again when I either speak to them on the phone or at the next CSA road show.
 

SNAFU at C$A

It sounds like all is normal at C$A. They don't know, so they guess. Probably not fair on the C$A, but then C$A have never been fair. Personaly, it would seem unlikely to me that the Legaslative Formula will not manage more than 3 children or multiple fathers. So it may be back to the drawing board.



On the issue of the C$ year. I thought one of the legaslative changes was to bring the C$ year back to 12 months, in line with everybody elses's year.


For me - Shared Parenting is a Reality - Maybe it can be for you too!
We will make these comments clear in the enhancements that are going on in the Child Support calculator.  :$ We need to also start looking at Family Tax Benefit impacts both part A and part B…  O_o These need carefull consideration particulalry in relation to other on going pharmacy benifits, pensions etc. etc. etc.

Site Director
Guest said
I am really excited about the prospect of seeing a new Child Support Calculator… Well done team… :thumbs:  :rockon: :rockon:
96022

Departmental response

BB said
I have had a play with the new calculator. The threshold has been brought down to 52 days. This got me curious, as I wanted to know over what period. Is it per financial year or Child support year (the CSA year is 15 months). I rang the CSA and spoke to a case officer. It appears they haven't been trained yet on the new changes. However this CSA lady clearly said we have to have 52 nights over 15 months which is the Child support period. The other thing the CSA lady advised was that we needed to keep proof of contact. A proof that shows when the contact occured. They do expect disputes about this between the parents, in particular in cases where the payee receives significantly less money. So everyone please start documenting your contact. I would expect at least a spreadsheet. I have a template ready that I can make available.

I then asked the CSA lady how they know how many nights/days we spend with our children. This seemed to be a grey area. First the lady said we have to tell them. I then asked when we should do that and she didnt know. Then she guessed they will contact us with a questionnaire. We still have over a year to go, so in the event I dont hear anything from anyone I will just contact the CSA. I will bring this question up again when I either speak to them on the phone or at the next CSA road show.
 
Departmental Response
Care will be measured over a period of 12 months, ('the care period') which begins from the day an application for a child support assessment is made, or the day on which the Registrar becomes aware of a change in care.

Information about determining level of care when parents do not agree can be found in CSA's online law and policy guide at The Guide Part 2.2

The CSA will contact all parents over coming months to request the information needed for assessments under the new formula.

Queries about individual cases should be addressed to the Child Support Agency.

Executive Secretary - Shared Parenting Council of Australia
 Was my post helpful? If so, please let others know about the FamilyLawWebGuide whenever you see the opportunity
 
Thanks very much for the reply.
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