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Reading Other Posts might be Useful!

As a senior moderator on the FLWG what surprises me is how people launch into various topics without seeming to bother to read older posts or use the Portals or the Forums search engine.

There were a few recent 'amusing' posts about the CSA using matching software - which they do not. Other posts were be careful about what you say.

How many of these people bothered to read older posts about the CSA actually being registered on this site? They even have their own CSA Government logo!

Shortly the CSA will begin posting 'official' replies to some forum questions. This is the first time in Australia that the CSA will engage in this type of public response. It is testament to the fact that the FLWG has been recognised by another Government Agency.

You can expect an official announcement shortly about what the CSA will and will not respond to.


Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
Just to add about the CSA coming on board, they have apparently notified all CSA workers about this and that it is a 6 month trial. Another positive is that as the CSA recognise this portal staff appear to be allowed to inform customers about the site. So a tick for that on my personal wish list.
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Site Director
Posts from this topic have been moved by members. 1 posts have been transferred to topicview.

CSA involvment in the CSA technical forums

Thanks for the post mikeT. We are informed by Sec SPCA that negotiations are almost concluded for CSA to assist the Moderators. This will be in the form of post responses to some forum threads that will add factual clarity to posts and to correct by additional information when incorrect information is posted. We have been working on a range of technical enhancements to the site to meet the requirements provided by the SPCA. There will be more posts about the limits of involvement shortly.

I would expect that the interaction by the CSA will be a welcome assistance to the moderators. At this stage we are informed it is a pilot program to test and see what assistance the CSA can provide. A list of guidelines are being prepared and will be posted within a few days. It is not anticipated that CSA posts will be other than informative. The CSA are very interested in the posts and topics that are being provided. The feedback we have been collecting through the "have your say" links are being provided to FaCSIA policy group and others via SPCA and amendments are being looked into through the LFAA, DiDS and SPCA.

What is important is the robust nature, informative posts and interesting subjects raised by many members. It is only through those posts that any changes will be effected. A credit indeed to the divesrsity of members, many of whom seem to be extrodinarily well informed of the agency and its' process and procedures. :thumbs:

Site Director
I just hope that people do not start to use the site as a sounding post to bag the CSA all the time, if they do the CSA may decided not to participate after the trial.

Another point I would like to make is that some questions that people have can easily be explained by reading the CSA Guide.

Yesterday I noticed two different posts about the same subject, the CSA making determinations about debts that should have been made 4 years ago.  I did not make any comment because I saw this topic…lol

NO I do not work for CSA, but do work for a different Government Department
I agree with OneRingRule… it is the diversity of members and the diversity of POSTS (good or bad) that makes this site very interesting.

"The Guide" is a good starting point, but it isnt all that well written… there are specific omissions and "interpretations" that are just plain wrong… Deliberately? Intentionally? well one will never know. To give an example…. the COA legislation states that the registrar must advise on the notice of a specific event or change of circumstance under to gather information under a 160, or 161.. but the guide states nothing about the requirement to "advise"… Also COA stipulates Capacity to Earn under Section 8… but the guide refernces Capacity to Pay as well……. and CSA officers quote the guide…. which means that payer and payee are getting CSA interpretation of the legisaltion - not the actual rule of law.

As I have stated before, the reforms came about because of (in a major part) people "bagging" the CSA and its actions.

We all dont wortk in the public service, we all dont subscribe to the "political correct" dogma - and nor should we. This is not a country of automatons or robots and without the plight of others sites like this dont take flight.



Your situation may be great and you may have a great relationship with the CSA - some of us don't through no fault of our own (bitterness of the other party) and we have to put up with CSA constant intrusion into our lives. The constant search for any "little" bit of information that enables them to make a determination… I am happy that you have the ability to earn the same salary, week after week, year after year - but this country is built on the back of small business and the land (farmers) and if you are one of these industries and pay CS then you are constantly treated like a criminal….. Just read the posts from people who have been under surveillance…. and how CSA uses the surveillance, read between the lines and see that it is all based on coercion.

No evidence, but we will make you think we have…
No right to, but we will make you think we have…

So why can people "bag" the CSA. 700 confirmed cases of breaches of privacy…. and we are supposed to sit and put up with it?

I don't subscribe to the "persecution of CSA employees individually" and understand the owrk that CSA must conduct.

But for all the reforms that were gained - there were alot of powers that CSA picked up as well in order to invade even more - in some cases justifyable - but in many just because they can.

Decision and cases from 4 years ago still have impacts now and in relation to the new reforms… there has been no "slate cleaning" and some of us are being treated as no hopers because of bad/incorrect/dictatorial decisions from 4 years ago…. and becuase we have been classified as such - we now have to put up with the new "covert" operations of CSA today.

Take this point of view as an example, IsntLifeGrand… you are possibly currently at work, reading and watching this site, using Govt resources to call family and friends and surf the internet, add comments on this site, etc. etc…………well in CSA eyes (if run a business/farm etc) then your "personal" use of these resources is of benefit to you and they swarm over records and attribute "personal internet time, and personal phone time" even down to $200-300 A YEAR against your income….but if you work for govt, then THEY don't…  So why can you use government resources for personal use that attract no FBT… but others can't?

And this is called fair and equitable?

Last edit: by nxus

I Think I should have defined my statement more eloquently.  

The term bagging I meant in the extreme, giving a whole torrent of abuse without any explanation as to why.  I am all for constructive critisism which may better the way organisations operate, not destructive.

I also only meant that the Guide is a good starting point and may answer some questions that people may have, as the title says, it is only a "GUIDE".  I did not imply that it was the definative answer to everything.  You may note that my statement had the word "some", which to me, please correct me if I am wrong means "not all"

I have never been a supporter of CSA or will be unless there are radical changes to the way they do business.  The main reason it was supposed to be brought into being was to try and get the people who were shirking their responsiblilty to start supporting their children.  My daughter has had a terrible experience at the hands of the CSA and she is the payee.

I didn't know I said anything politically correct or implied as such.  

If you have read my posts in regards to decisions that have been made recently for events that occurred 4 years ago you will have noticed I made reference to the Guide.  In my opinion for something to take 4 years to determine is totally wrong and the only term you can use is defective administration and as such individuals should have, do have, the right to redress and the guide outlines how do do that.
I also work for a Government Dept, I understand admin law and find the guide seriously wanting as a source of information.  

I lead a team of 10 in my job.  4 out of the 10 are involved with CSA as either payers or payees.  None of the 4 are happy.  Not good.
Somehow IsntLifeGrand.. I think those that shirk their responsiblities are NOT on this site….. or if they are then they have their rant and are gone….

The guide…. yes NOW it does outline some of these things now. But it still puts the CSA spin on the law… a spin that is quoted in calls and correspondence with CSA.

But before it didnt, the only option was court, which having gone through 60+ days of objectioning, another 30 days of submissions etc, numerous meeting phone calls at the end of which your head bleeds from the banging aginst the wall - you cannot afford because CSA have back dated your arrears.

You now have abill and a debt, guess what - you cant afford to go to court, you dont qualify for legal aid and CSA opinion (previously) was "gottcha".

And the point that I am trying to make here is this… some of us still have these debts, some of us have been reviewed and reviewed over the past few years to ensure we still have a debt when July 08 came along… For what reason, so we cant leave our allotted "bad egg barrel". So for some peoples perspective the CSA opinion is still "gottcha".

BigRed - puts the statistics 4/4 not happy, 50% overuled decisions by SSAT, 700 privacy breaches last year….. surely Sen Ludwig has to take notice one day.

With those stats one would think that some sort of audit or review of the way CSA do business is in order.  Any other organization or business would have been forced to change the way they did business years ago or cease to exist.

Agog said
As a senior moderator on the FLWG what surprises me is how people launch into various topics without seeming to bother to read older posts or use the Portals or the Forums search engine.

There were a few recent 'amusing' posts about the CSA using matching software - which they do not. Other posts were be careful about what you say.

How many of these people bothered to read older posts about the CSA actually being registered on this site? They even have their own CSA Government logo!

Shortly the CSA will begin posting 'official' replies to some forum questions. This is the first time in Australia that the CSA will engage in this type of public response. It is testament to the fact that the FLWG has been recognised by another Government Agency.

You can expect an official announcement shortly about what the CSA will and will not respond to.
Agog, i am very internet and forum savvy, and even i have trouble keeping track of where to look for information, especially in the forums. I have never visited a place with so much relevant information set out in so many different areas of a webpage before.

Dont get me wrong, this is a BRILLIANT thing but, to navigate, collate and find is pretty difficult. I have used the search function too, and this is a bit hit and miss….Ive been searching the site for two weeks now and its only been this week that i have got to grips with the structure af the forums, I think, with the size you have, you will always have people repeating information.

Is there maybe a system where you could have a "frequently posted questions" page with a link to past and relevant posts on the matter? Sort of like a…. LOOK HERE FIRST page…..It could be like a guide to where to start to look on subjects with some clear links to what admin consider to be pertanant threads or forum lists.

This could work the same way as a frequently asked questions page.

A pointer in the right direction will, im sure help lots of newbies such as myself to navigate the forums properly and therefore lessen the repeat posts.

thanks

A

Last edit: by OneRingRules


They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

gooner said
Agog, i am very internet and forum savvy, and even i have trouble keeping track of where to look for information, especially in the forums. I have never visited a place with so much relevant information set out in so many different areas of a webpage before.

Dont get me wrong, this is a BRILLIANT thing but, to navigate, collate and find is pretty difficult. I have used the search function too, and this is a bit hit and miss….Ive been searching the site for two weeks now and its only been this week that i have got to grips with the structure af the forums, I think, with the size you have, you will always have people repeating information.
We will take this feedback on board. We are working to enhance the search engine currently. The forums are far toooooo popular and we are working to deliver additional components to take pressure off the forums. We are in the final stages of the "Chat" module testing and instant messaging system. The forums are large. These have bene developed over a long period of time and we cannot see any way to have less categories. Our view is that we need to enhance the search functions. One forum well worth looking at is the "New Site features released". One big problem we have is members and guests do not scroll down the page in forums. We have deployed the "Tagging" system so you can collate forum posts of interest and set these up in categories. Are you using this for categorising?
gooner said
Is there maybe a system where you could have a "frequently posted questions" page with a link to past and relevant posts on the matter? Sort of like a…. LOOK HERE FIRST page…..It could be like a guide to where to start to look on subjects with some clear links to what admin consider to be pertanant threads or forum lists.

This could work the same way as a frequently asked questions page.

A pointer in the right direction will, im sure help lots of newbies such as myself to navigate the forums properly and therefore lessen the repeat posts.
We already have an FAQ section. Take a look at the CSA area off the web guide tab for the FAQ on CSA and also in the help section. Is that what you are thinking of? Instead of FAQ it would be FPQ (Frequently posted questions)… Actually there are very few questions the same here which has really suprised us. Mostly everything that comes is fairly unique. The Search facilities are relatively good in the forums and should pick up most queries… Have you had some time in the various search engines? Again take a look at new site enhancements released

Site Director
Oneringrules

yes a FPQ instead of a FAQ is what i meant, but if questions are unique, that negates that.. I must say im very surprised at your observations on this, i would've gone the other way and thought repetitiveness would happen a lot…… repetitiveness would happen a lot…..repetitiveness would happen a lot……

I have noticed this about the forums…. i hope it helps…..It is very hard to have the forum titles and descriptions "catch your eye": as you are trying to search, for instance the words:

Family Law in Australia
The forums in this category are devoted to discussing family law matters and the situation relating to family law legislation in various courts and relationship centres around Australia. Some groups may have specific organisational security and membership may not be open in all forums within this category. Some forums will be by invitation and some by subscription only where authentication is required and additional member securities and privileges are in place
are in VERY pale text colours and you cant really note the contents as you scroll down the page, and therefore the brain does not really "register" the information quickly. The text, because it is a pale colour, does not stand out…..Ive found on forums i have been involved in that the initial glance and search needs to be as simple as it can be in order for the mind to collate all the information in front of it, and brightly fonted description sections work well……. To see what i mean try to change the colour of the font and then go back and look at the forum list… the title and description will stand out from all around it.

Also, on initial search, sub forums such as the one above would be much easier on the initial scan to search if they were in alphabetical order, especially as there are so many sub category's off the main category…. At the moment when i have to search for something in the family law in Australia section of the forum, even to get to the right place involves looking down a list of headings that are not in any simple logical order… I would find what i am looking for a lot easier if i was scanning a forum list from A to Z

I make these points because we live in a society where quick glances and scans of information is the norm, especially on line and ANY way to catch peoples eye and point them in the right direction on their initial view.. is a good thing

I'm not moaning, this lace has changed my whole way of thinking and has put me on a learning curve like never before… its fantastic… I'm just good with websites as i run my own

;-)

A

They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

Whilst the forums are difficult to access for a new user and the resources are within the communties section which I assume is diliberate, there might be a bit of a problem with the way you are expressing yourself.

You dont need a 365 word explaination complaining about everything form the colour and text.
Feed back is feedback, it measures how well you are doing, but you dont have to over explain yourself.Gooner just slow your row!

I dont have a problem with you saying, I think this process makes it hard, I do have a problem with an extremely long list of reasons that "its hard" that are a bit repetitive. That kind of feedback is the hardest to build on.

I dont agree with the forums being alhabetised, the lay out now is good and workable.

Rarghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Han Solo routine "We're all fine here, thanks. How are you?" *weapons fire* "It was a boring conversation anyway!"
monster said
Whilst the forums are difficult to access for a new user and the resources are within the communties section which I assume is diliberate, there might be a bit of a problem with the way you are expressing yourself.

You dont need a 365 word explaination complaining about everything form the colour and text.
Feed back is feedback, it measures how well you are doing, but you dont have to over explain yourself.Gooner just slow your row!

I dont have a problem with you saying, I think this process makes it hard, I do have a problem with an extremely long list of reasons that "its hard" that are a bit repetitive. That kind of feedback is the hardest to build on.

I dont agree with the forums being alhabetised, the lay out now is good and workable.

  Just to clarify Im certainly not complaining about anything at all. I already owe this place a great service, suggestions based on opinion are not complaints, Coming in and saying "this is rubbish and change it now" is complaining. Seriously, monstor, how can anyone complain about this site? It has more information contained in it than ALL my previous two years web based searching combined…. Its an information overload……..All throughout life people offer opinions and you either take them on board when forming your views or you dont… I was only expressing a view, and people do with it what they will

For a while last year i was a modorator on a forum and we had many discussions about layouts and catching peoples eyes,.. I also built (a pretty basic) website for my friends business and learnt a lot about the initial capture of an audience, its almost the same concept as the bold first few lines in an affidavit… …and …sorry but i like to explain my reasoning behind things,im sure that sometimes i am right and sometimes i am wrong but, if it takes 3 words or 4000 i will explain it how i see it just as you are too free to do and say what you feel say……. in relation to my avatar (changed) and your percieved problems with my post..

If i could please the whole world i would not be in court fighting for custody hey? ;-)

chill

They must find it difficult, those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority

Perhaps as in many forums those who post need to consider self moderation in regards to the information they do post, This would help no end as to doubling up information but this is something that should fall on the posters shoulder to help the moderation of the site.

Also if posts are given relevant headings as to their nature this could be of assistance but again this falls on the authors shoulders.

Again those who read the topics could help by asking questions relative to the post rather that sub-topicing  and digressing from the topic but again this also relies on those who post.

Members could also seek out previous posts that are relevant to that they wish to discuss.

Personally I am guilty of some of those things I have listed but I also appreciate that there is a need for all to self moderate for the benefit of the forum and that those who now volunteer to moderate are doing a fantastic job, if anything I think what the forum needs is for people to take the time themselves to address some of the problems and help the moderators.

Although I understand the bold print issues and it's a good suggestion I also understand that this may be done for a reason, as far as alphabetical listings well you'll find just as many prefer listings to be in date format so it's a hard one.

The forum is after all a small part of what is on offer but a large source of open discussion and must be very difficult to moderate with limited volunteers and I know I would not be up to such a task, all things concerned I think thing are brilliant even if there are problems, and it's still improving.

Vote of confidence from me D4E   

FLWG Development - Give It Time

I think what needs to be borne in mind is that FLWG is still a work in progress - that is why the site had not been formally launched. There is a lot of internal debate as to whether it is 33% or 50% towards its end goal. Either way when complete it will always be a work in progress.

With site hits approaching the 1.5 million per month there are additional pressures on the developers and moderators and that is why D4Es comments about moderation are germane.

The site is actually a portal (shopping centre analogy) comprised of Communities and various modules tied together with software and the ISYS search engine. A look at Communities actually reveals they are web sites that are hosted by FLWG so if you type the web addresses of some of the organisations you are directed to FLWG Communties. Many people look at FLWG and go 'good a forum' without fully exploring the whole site and examining its full breadth or often even properly reading Forum rules and policies.

Because of the constant 'growing' there are many navigation help areas yet to be developed. Much of this will relate to searching however there is presently much focus on the search and material content of WEBGuide itself. Some projects consume inordinate amounts of time which means time poor developers have to concentrate on priority issues. It can take an FLWG editor 10 to 15 minutes to add metadata search tags to just one document alone.

At SRL-R we have one particular subscription to a legal database that costs almost $2,000 pa and yet to our people is often more far more difficult to search than FLWG. And for those that have had to wade through Austlii you will understand the difficulty of both indexing and searching on various types of information, so perhaps all should remember "Rome was not built in a day"

There is nothing like FLWG in Australia and so far nothing else in the World quite like it.

Executive Member of SRL-Resources, the Family Law People on this site (look for the Avatars) Be mindful what you post in public areas. 
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